Disgusted at release sites offering weapons making guides

**t1mpulse** · 07-22-12 at 03:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth

Puh-lees! The stove is hot, you teach the kid not to touch it. You don't let a video game or the tv raise them.

I can understand your failure to grasp the logic. That is one of the sociatal failures of the day.

Smiles,
Mandy

I fail to grasp the logic because there is none. Even if you teach a kid not to touch a hot stove that doesn't mean that they wont do it when you aren't looking, which is why you shouldn't leave a hot stove unattended with kids nearby. Being taught something does not control or force a child to follow it. Children will rebel, they will experiment with whatever is made available to them. So what do you do? If you own a rifle, you keep it unloaded and you lock it up. Of course you must teach them not to touch it, but you cannot do just that and hope for the best.

And who said anything about video games or tv?

**Silvergrin** · 07-22-12 at 04:04 PM

You can have all the rules/laws you want, laws are broken. I am gonna just guess that in any country you can find some criminal scumbag to sell you what you need. If a nut job is gonna go on a killing spree nothing will stop them from doing so.

**rainbowspinner** · 07-22-12 at 04:16 PM

If something isn't readily available it will not be there to incite ideas. We're talking instruction manuals posted on forums? Kids are curious by nature. If they see something new, like instructions for building a gun or a bomb, they're going to try it if the mood strikes them or at the least it will put the thought in their mind for future reference. Why fuel the fire? It's irresponsible to post these books on forums where kids might have access.

Is someone going to tell me that it should be a common practice to drill into kids that they shouldn't be building guns and bombs? No. Because this is not a part of our everyday world. Oh. Maybe this should be added to that list of things parents need to talk to their kids about regularly? Right after guns are bad - add you also shouldn't build guns or bombs.

**lvstealth** · 07-22-12 at 04:37 PM

BINGO! "you shouldn't leave a kid unattended!" you got it! the parent should be held accountable! the parent should not let the child have the freedoms the child cannot handle! the parent, not the government, should take the responsibility! and here i was thinking you couldn't grasp the logic! (although, you were all for not leaving the stove unattended instead of the kid... but it is a slow process!)

since you missed it, i brought up the tv and games, thought you saw that! but just in case, i hope that clarifies things.

Rainbow, i would think that in this day and age if you are allowing your child to search the internet unrestricted, then bombs are not what they are looking for. also, i would think that in this day and age they know "bombs are bad" before they are capable of desirous of instruction manual digesting. if they do not know there is right and wrong, good and bad and consequences for bad choices by the time they have the free rein of the media at hand, you have far greater issues than bomb instruction manuals.

these manuals have been out there for decades.

as for keeping rifles unloaded or locked away... boy! now i have heard it all!

smiling,
Mandy

**t1mpulse** · 07-22-12 at 06:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth

BINGO! "you shouldn't leave a kid unattended!" you got it! the parent should be held accountable! the parent should not let the child have the freedoms the child cannot handle! the parent, not the government, should take the responsibility! and here i was thinking you couldn't grasp the logic! (although, you were all for not leaving the stove unattended instead of the kid... but it is a slow process!)

since you missed it, i brought up the tv and games, thought you saw that! but just in case, i hope that clarifies things.

Rainbow, i would think that in this day and age if you are allowing your child to search the internet unrestricted, then bombs are not what they are looking for. also, i would think that in this day and age they know "bombs are bad" before they are capable of desirous of instruction manual digesting. if they do not know there is right and wrong, good and bad and consequences for bad choices by the time they have the free rein of the media at hand, you have far greater issues than bomb instruction manuals.

these manuals have been out there for decades.

as for keeping rifles unloaded or locked away... boy! now i have heard it all!

smiling,
Mandy

Since you can't even understand your own, bad, analogy, I'll break it down for you.
1. A hot stove is actually necessary.
2. A hot stove must be taken in a very particular context because a parent will have direct control over it rather than weapon literature. If it's out there you can't stop your kids from googling and finding it.
3. I went along with that analogy only to poke holes in your usage of it.

We are talking about things that you teach a child not to meddle with which they have access to at the same time and is out of the parents' control. You yourself don't believe a child should have access to a hot stove, so it's a poor analogy. A parent cannot protect a child from everything. A parent cannot follow their child 24/7 to screen who they speak to, what they hear, what they read, what they are exposed to. A parent cannot control what is on the internet, but the government can.

I guess you didn't pick up on the heavy sarcasm in that question about the video games and tv, so once again I'll spoon feed you - I was saying you pulled that out of nowhere because it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

So because they have been out there for decades, that means we need to make a one-stop-shop for everything? Take any possibly difficulty out of acquiring these things, because they've existed for decades? Did it ever occur to you that such difficulty was actually saving the lives of people who may fall victim to this knowledge?

Do you think that the most heinous people in the world do/did not know right from wrong?

(Here comes another vague, deflective response, going off tangent on minute fractions of other people's comments??)

**lvstealth** · 07-22-12 at 06:42 PM

ah, i have offended you! so sorry.

again, i will repeat my only (and original) contention... and where the tv, games comment derived its relevance; there would be a more successful outcome if parents were held responsible for their children than through any attempt to alter the constitutional rights to free speech and the right to bear arms.

you are sadly mistaken on several points, not the least of which are the success of governmental controls and the capability of parents if held accountable.

personally, i believe the most heinous persons known had severe mental issues and would have been the most heinous people regardless of governmental interference, but might have been thwarted or helped (up to and including institutionalized) if their parents had been held accountable for their actions as children. then again, i am for capital punishment, also the culling of societal defects.

by the by; 'round these parts a gun is more necessary than a stove!

smiling,
Mandy

**t1mpulse** · 07-22-12 at 08:31 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth

ah, i have offended you! so sorry.

You were obviously trying to, it did not work, and it still had no bearing on anything I said. Do not mistake my affinity for arguing as emotion - I am cool as a cucumber. Just another typical attempt at deflecting. Moving on..

TV and video games still have no relevance because bad parenting is not synonymous with raising kids on them. You just inserted randomness to try and make your point stronger.

If I'm so sadly mistaken on so many things, how about pointing them out with some credible proof?

Are you saying that ALL homicidal maniacs show such tendencies from childhood? I'm sure you have no proof of that but I would love to see it if you do.

What is plainly obvious, however, is that killing large amounts of people in seconds is considerably harder to do without automatic rifles. Alternatives require in depth knowledge, which are usually only available to trained experts, unless it is on the internet or somewhere very easy to find. This is the point.

It doesn't matter that it is possible at all to find the literature in a library somewhere, the point is that it is harder to do. That difficulty could be what stops a person from going all the way through with something. The extra time and effort it takes to gather the resources could be what the person needed to change their mind or be caught and stopped. You say No! Forget that, because it's not likely and is not worth it because it will inconvenience and infringe on people's right to know everything immediately, even if they have no real need for it.

Are you really willing to bet that a child (or anyone for that matter) not knowing how to load a gun and remove the safety has not saved anyone's life, ever?

Who NEEDS to know how to make/tweak/use a weapon and can't go take a class or training to do so?

**lvstealth** · 07-23-12 at 12:07 AM

I will try to confine myself to the simplicity of your capabilities in future. I am sorry I reached past!

There is no debating with one with such an affinity, so I will just repeat. Rights being stripped away is not a viable option; however, better parenting skills are.

Smiles,
Mandy

**t1mpulse** · 07-23-12 at 05:27 PM

It's almost funny how delusional you are. You're expressive skills are non-existent so you try to be condescending, which may work on children. Repeating a bad point in exactly the same way, while ignoring counter arguments does not give it strength. It shows your inability to defend an obviously, weak premise. There is no debating with such ignorance, so I wont even bother to restate my point.

Grins?,
A dude.

**lvstealth** · 07-23-12 at 07:08 PM

guffaw!
Mandy

**mirrow** · 07-24-12 at 03:12 AM

What a sarcastic but amusing discussion

Notorious_dog · 07-24-12 at 04:31 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rainbowspinner

If something isn't readily available it will not be there to incite ideas. We're talking instruction manuals posted on forums? Kids are curious by nature. If they see something new, like instructions for building a gun or a bomb, they're going to try it if the mood strikes them or at the least it will put the thought in their mind for future reference. Why fuel the fire? It's irresponsible to post these books on forums where kids might have access.

Is someone going to tell me that it should be a common practice to drill into kids that they shouldn't be building guns and bombs? No. Because this is not a part of our everyday world. Oh. Maybe this should be added to that list of things parents need to talk to their kids about regularly? Right after guns are bad - add you also shouldn't build guns or bombs.

When I was a kid I asked my dad how to make bombs... He never told me.. the bastard.

07-22-12 at 03:35 PM	#43
t1mpulse Village Idiot Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 87	Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth Puh-lees! The stove is hot, you teach the kid not to touch it. You don't let a video game or the tv raise them. I can understand your failure to grasp the logic. That is one of the sociatal failures of the day. Smiles, Mandy I fail to grasp the logic because there is none. Even if you teach a kid not to touch a hot stove that doesn't mean that they wont do it when you aren't looking, which is why you shouldn't leave a hot stove unattended with kids nearby. Being taught something does not control or force a child to follow it. Children will rebel, they will experiment with whatever is made available to them. So what do you do? If you own a rifle, you keep it unloaded and you lock it up. Of course you must teach them not to touch it, but you cannot do just that and hope for the best. And who said anything about video games or tv?

07-22-12 at 04:04 PM	#44
Silvergrin Hunter's Moon Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 920	You can have all the rules/laws you want, laws are broken. I am gonna just guess that in any country you can find some criminal scumbag to sell you what you need. If a nut job is gonna go on a killing spree nothing will stop them from doing so.

07-22-12 at 04:16 PM	#45
rainbowspinner Elder Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,550	If something isn't readily available it will not be there to incite ideas. We're talking instruction manuals posted on forums? Kids are curious by nature. If they see something new, like instructions for building a gun or a bomb, they're going to try it if the mood strikes them or at the least it will put the thought in their mind for future reference. Why fuel the fire? It's irresponsible to post these books on forums where kids might have access. Is someone going to tell me that it should be a common practice to drill into kids that they shouldn't be building guns and bombs? No. Because this is not a part of our everyday world. Oh. Maybe this should be added to that list of things parents need to talk to their kids about regularly? Right after guns are bad - add you also shouldn't build guns or bombs.

07-22-12 at 04:37 PM	#46
lvstealth Give me your Glow juice.. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 5,126	BINGO! "you shouldn't leave a kid unattended!" you got it! the parent should be held accountable! the parent should not let the child have the freedoms the child cannot handle! the parent, not the government, should take the responsibility! and here i was thinking you couldn't grasp the logic! (although, you were all for not leaving the stove unattended instead of the kid... but it is a slow process!) since you missed it, i brought up the tv and games, thought you saw that! but just in case, i hope that clarifies things. Rainbow, i would think that in this day and age if you are allowing your child to search the internet unrestricted, then bombs are not what they are looking for. also, i would think that in this day and age they know "bombs are bad" before they are capable of desirous of instruction manual digesting. if they do not know there is right and wrong, good and bad and consequences for bad choices by the time they have the free rein of the media at hand, you have far greater issues than bomb instruction manuals. these manuals have been out there for decades. as for keeping rifles unloaded or locked away... boy! now i have heard it all! smiling, Mandy

07-22-12 at 06:09 PM	#47
t1mpulse Village Idiot Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 87	Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth BINGO! "you shouldn't leave a kid unattended!" you got it! the parent should be held accountable! the parent should not let the child have the freedoms the child cannot handle! the parent, not the government, should take the responsibility! and here i was thinking you couldn't grasp the logic! (although, you were all for not leaving the stove unattended instead of the kid... but it is a slow process!) since you missed it, i brought up the tv and games, thought you saw that! but just in case, i hope that clarifies things. Rainbow, i would think that in this day and age if you are allowing your child to search the internet unrestricted, then bombs are not what they are looking for. also, i would think that in this day and age they know "bombs are bad" before they are capable of desirous of instruction manual digesting. if they do not know there is right and wrong, good and bad and consequences for bad choices by the time they have the free rein of the media at hand, you have far greater issues than bomb instruction manuals. these manuals have been out there for decades. as for keeping rifles unloaded or locked away... boy! now i have heard it all! smiling, Mandy Since you can't even understand your own, bad, analogy, I'll break it down for you. 1. A hot stove is actually necessary. 2. A hot stove must be taken in a very particular context because a parent will have direct control over it rather than weapon literature. If it's out there you can't stop your kids from googling and finding it. 3. I went along with that analogy only to poke holes in your usage of it. We are talking about things that you teach a child not to meddle with which they have access to at the same time and is out of the parents' control. You yourself don't believe a child should have access to a hot stove, so it's a poor analogy. A parent cannot protect a child from everything. A parent cannot follow their child 24/7 to screen who they speak to, what they hear, what they read, what they are exposed to. A parent cannot control what is on the internet, but the government can. I guess you didn't pick up on the heavy sarcasm in that question about the video games and tv, so once again I'll spoon feed you - I was saying you pulled that out of nowhere because it is completely irrelevant to the discussion. So because they have been out there for decades, that means we need to make a one-stop-shop for everything? Take any possibly difficulty out of acquiring these things, because they've existed for decades? Did it ever occur to you that such difficulty was actually saving the lives of people who may fall victim to this knowledge? Do you think that the most heinous people in the world do/did not know right from wrong? (Here comes another vague, deflective response, going off tangent on minute fractions of other people's comments??)

07-22-12 at 06:42 PM	#48
lvstealth Give me your Glow juice.. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 5,126	ah, i have offended you! so sorry. again, i will repeat my only (and original) contention... and where the tv, games comment derived its relevance; there would be a more successful outcome if parents were held responsible for their children than through any attempt to alter the constitutional rights to free speech and the right to bear arms. you are sadly mistaken on several points, not the least of which are the success of governmental controls and the capability of parents if held accountable. personally, i believe the most heinous persons known had severe mental issues and would have been the most heinous people regardless of governmental interference, but might have been thwarted or helped (up to and including institutionalized) if their parents had been held accountable for their actions as children. then again, i am for capital punishment, also the culling of societal defects. by the by; 'round these parts a gun is more necessary than a stove! smiling, Mandy

07-22-12 at 08:31 PM	#49
t1mpulse Village Idiot Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 87	Quote: Originally Posted by lvstealth ah, i have offended you! so sorry. You were obviously trying to, it did not work, and it still had no bearing on anything I said. Do not mistake my affinity for arguing as emotion - I am cool as a cucumber. Just another typical attempt at deflecting. Moving on.. TV and video games still have no relevance because bad parenting is not synonymous with raising kids on them. You just inserted randomness to try and make your point stronger. If I'm so sadly mistaken on so many things, how about pointing them out with some credible proof? Are you saying that ALL homicidal maniacs show such tendencies from childhood? I'm sure you have no proof of that but I would love to see it if you do. What is plainly obvious, however, is that killing large amounts of people in seconds is considerably harder to do without automatic rifles. Alternatives require in depth knowledge, which are usually only available to trained experts, unless it is on the internet or somewhere very easy to find. This is the point. It doesn't matter that it is possible at all to find the literature in a library somewhere, the point is that it is harder to do. That difficulty could be what stops a person from going all the way through with something. The extra time and effort it takes to gather the resources could be what the person needed to change their mind or be caught and stopped. You say No! Forget that, because it's not likely and is not worth it because it will inconvenience and infringe on people's right to know everything immediately, even if they have no real need for it. Are you really willing to bet that a child (or anyone for that matter) not knowing how to load a gun and remove the safety has not saved anyone's life, ever? Who NEEDS to know how to make/tweak/use a weapon and can't go take a class or training to do so?

07-23-12 at 12:07 AM	#50
lvstealth Give me your Glow juice.. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 5,126	I will try to confine myself to the simplicity of your capabilities in future. I am sorry I reached past! There is no debating with one with such an affinity, so I will just repeat. Rights being stripped away is not a viable option; however, better parenting skills are. Smiles, Mandy

07-23-12 at 05:27 PM	#51
t1mpulse Village Idiot Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 87	It's almost funny how delusional you are. You're expressive skills are non-existent so you try to be condescending, which may work on children. Repeating a bad point in exactly the same way, while ignoring counter arguments does not give it strength. It shows your inability to defend an obviously, weak premise. There is no debating with such ignorance, so I wont even bother to restate my point. Grins?, A dude.

07-23-12 at 07:08 PM	#52
lvstealth Give me your Glow juice.. Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 5,126	guffaw! Mandy

07-24-12 at 03:12 AM	#53
mirrow Master Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Delft, Holland Posts: 1,134	What a sarcastic but amusing discussion

07-24-12 at 04:31 AM	#54
Notorious_dog Elder Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,974	Quote: Originally Posted by rainbowspinner If something isn't readily available it will not be there to incite ideas. We're talking instruction manuals posted on forums? Kids are curious by nature. If they see something new, like instructions for building a gun or a bomb, they're going to try it if the mood strikes them or at the least it will put the thought in their mind for future reference. Why fuel the fire? It's irresponsible to post these books on forums where kids might have access. Is someone going to tell me that it should be a common practice to drill into kids that they shouldn't be building guns and bombs? No. Because this is not a part of our everyday world. Oh. Maybe this should be added to that list of things parents need to talk to their kids about regularly? Right after guns are bad - add you also shouldn't build guns or bombs. When I was a kid I asked my dad how to make bombs... He never told me.. the bastard.