The Great Cannabis Debate

**pain105** · 12-31-11 at 02:34 PM

this topic is so funny, where those who say, "gateway drug," that's hilarious. where do i begin and never end. cigarettes, let's chase that with some alcohol. coffee not doing it for you? how we spruce that up with supercaffeinatedmochalatted heart-stopping/starting drink that's sure to give you the energy you should have. not enough in the morning for you? try the zillion of energy drinks to give that boost right into the grave. WHAT?! headache? pain? are you in luck. there pills out there that'll make you forget about those things. while slowly destroying you on the inside, but hey, it's legal.

deaths per year

tobacco = 340,000 - 450,000
alcohol = 150,000
aspirin = 180 - 1000+
caffeine = 1,000 - 10,000+
legal drugs, i.e., prescribed meds = 100,000+
illicit drugs = 3,800 - 5,300
marijuana = priceless, i mean "0" in tens of thousands of years.

not one case of any type of cancer or sickness can be attributed to smoking or ingestion of marijuana. it'd be foolish for anyone to say that they have the answer to the legalization of marijuana. but obviously it's not about saving lives.

**Gandolph13** · 12-31-11 at 02:40 PM

Oh Pain105, if only I could find that thanks button!

**Gandolph13** · 12-31-11 at 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33

I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha ****a and throw themselves off of a cliff.

That's my 2 cents...

I don't know where you get your comprehension of pot smokers from, or pot itself, obviously, for the pot anyway, not from experience.
Seriously, some one must have wronged you big time for some of the apparent hate you openly display in relation to certain subjects (pot and women being the two most obvious).

Did your parents smoke pot and hug you too much???

Some of the nicest, most loving, caring people (and some of the smartest) I've ever known have smoked pot, and as for Darwinism, I'd say many were much more intelligent than you.

Why do you turn every response into HATE??????????????????????????????????????????????

Your life must really be miserable!

Hey, here's a novel idea, it's a new year, just once...SMILE!

**mis4nthropes** · 12-31-11 at 03:38 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33

I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha ****a and throw themselves off of a cliff.

That's my 2 cents...

*Edited. Deleted my comment as your thoughts just aren't worth the time or effort, nor a ban from saying the things I'd like to say.

Fatdawg · 12-31-11 at 03:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33

I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha ****a and throw themselves off of a cliff.

That's my 2 cents...

This is exactly why the last thread was locked. Jon you might have some good posts but bud you are trolling. This is in no way shape or form constructive, just destructive.

My 2 cents is skip over this comment because its just going to devolve the issue.

**nuwc** · 12-31-11 at 04:48 PM

to narub, my university has had a board of professors studying the pros and cons of legalizing marijuana in california since at least 5 years back. They revealed (during the peak of the first voting process) that legalizing it WOULD bring california out of debt, or at least near out of debt. Not only do we get back the hundreds of millions by releasing criminals who were charged with just possession or use of with SPECIFICALLY marijuana, we are able to tax it to the millions of other users properly, just like tobacco is now.

like a later poster said, I feel you are just speculating. I trust the work of my professors because I also took part in that statistical work, and the evidence is clear.

@gandolph, I've been studying neurobiology for over a year now and it's sad to say you are right. neurobiologists know what drugs or chemicals will help certain ailments better than medicinally prescribed ones, but it is not their place to legalize it based on how it helps people.

As an aside, every time I visit tehparadox I grow more attached to the forum and its people because this is literally the first forum I have found where there are sensible people who have RESPECT and knowledge, whether from experience or education, and can formulate a solid argument without angering other people. I f**king love this place.

**Method512** · 12-31-11 at 05:47 PM

I didnt read any posts here but here's my view:

Legalize everything.
Intelligence will prevail!
Stupids will die.

**Method512** · 12-31-11 at 06:05 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bolivarian

Well, historically this hasn't always been the case.
Most of the time stupidity has multiplied geometrically...

Herein some examples:
* Oprah fans
* Chia Pet owners
* People who purchased Pet Rocks
* Folks who drove a Ford Pinto after 1979
* People who still get married after 4 failed tries
* Folks who think baseball is a really exciting sport
* People who watch Gillian's Island reruns on Hulu
* Folks who think Penthouse is an interior decorating magazine
* People who like Charlie Sheen
* People who don't like playing with breasts
...
..

Stupidity abounds, it self-replicates, it's real, burgeoning and NOT going away!

:)

Cheers my brother.

* Note: The above post is meant as an intentional politically incorrect compilations of amazingly out of control statements comprised of paradigms and thought processes not necessarily shared by tehPARADOX or the body that makes up it's online community.

Yeah, I agree! What I said would only apply in a fair world.
And I agree especially with the ones on green!
But the Ford Pinto doesn't look that bad....just saying. :)
And pet rocks rock! lol

jjesso1993 · 12-31-11 at 07:02 PM

Anyone who looks at cannabis from scientific point of view knows it has no place being illegal when alcohol and cigs are legal. They also would know medical proprieties natural and medical cannabis have, Its been link to cure for Alzheimer's, and is a far better cure for insomnia due to its lack of additive chemicals.

Cannabis being illegal actually does more harm than good. It increases public spending and probably makes it easier for kids to get hold off.

Now the comment before suggesting cannabis is stepping stone to harder drugs I disagree and slightly agree. The cannabis itself does not do this, someone smoking cannabis would be hanging around with harder drug users in some cases so Its possible that life could lead them that way.

Now history (advice people look the history has amazing history ), back 100's and 100's years ago cannabis obviously was legal in many places. It was ones illegal not grow it if you had so much land in England at one point. The reason for legalization was nothing to do with health, its because cannabis did not get mass production that cigs did and became hard for England anyway (don't know about other countries) to tax cannabis, because of the preference to grow your own so they outlawed it.

The bottom line is cannabis least needs to be legal for medical purposes, The most amazing scientist of today agree to this, or even legalization. It should in England not be a class B drug for sure, ( epic fail there Gordon you did not even listen to scientist did you ).

The last point Like to make is this, when kids learn about drugs and you start Independently doing projects in school on them you tend to relalise that cannabis is lot less dangerous that alcohol. This on whole is big issues as what message does that kids ? that laws don't really make sense.

Now I myself, when think about tend lean away from legalization of the drug, my judgment is however clouded due to my childhood, cannabis Itself made me lazy nearly destroyed my ambitions in life, and gave me an addiction to tobacco.

Narubxan · 12-31-11 at 07:44 PM

Quote:

Narubxan, unless I'm misreading you, I disagree with this a lot(respectfully, of course). Just because it is decriminalized does not mean employers would have to deal with people stoned on the job. Like alcohol, I'm certain many/all companies would ban working while stoned. Nor would it mean that teenagers would be running around legally smoking either. Marijuana would likely be regulated much like alcohol is, therefore banning underage use, public intoxication, driving under the influence, etc.

Nuhuh, i didnt say that people will be stoned in their jobs (many already are anyway) i just said that the drug tests on the job will still continue, it wont be due to being illegal anymore but it will be doing to employers not wanting it in the work place.
Also i always take not agreements respectfully, i would have no right to participate in an argument if im not aware that other people have different opinions :D

Quote:

I also disagree with this quite a bit too. While it is certainly a large part of some people's lives, this certainly isn't the case with everyone. Personally, I smoke, but absolutely never bring it up with other people(yes, this is anecdotal). Frankly, it's not a very interesting thing to talk about. But, this comment I think is just way too generalized. I'm certain there are people you know and respect who smoke and just don't mention it to you. Basically, you only hear from the ones who talk about it, and not from the ones who don't.

It is however, addictive, 10 to 30% addiction rate, 9% being serious addiction, that is all but not being addictive, so thats not even the argument, although yes i do recognize it is a bit generalizing, that is why i used the example of most people that i know, having the "most" there, to make sure its understood there are exceptions.

Quote:

I'm not saying no one smokes too much or has a dependence on it. I'm also not saying that it's healthy. But, these aren't reasons to criminalize something to the extent we have with marijuana. I'm just saying the criminalization of it is ineffective. As grown adults, I feel our government doesn't have the right to say what we do in our own homes and to our own bodies.

Very true, as i mentioned before i dont care, i really really dont, although i do think that adults being responsible should keep in mind kids learn by imitation and should refrain from doing that close to kids, or setting an example of "its ok", not its not, its harmful.
While you have the right to screw your own body, you really dont have the right to say its ok to someone else when it really isnt :P

Quote:

This, also, is a result of the criminalization of marijuana. If it were legally sold and distributed, there would be regulations and no need to buy from the drug cartels. Much like the rise of organized crime and prohibition, this one is actually a pretty good argument for the decriminalization of marijuana.

That missed the point man, really did, what i mean is a lot of people do buy it from cartels.
Thus are using blood drugs, this is not an argument towards keeping it illegal, this is to show the moral character of people who are too hedonistic and shortsighted to realize that to have their unneeded high they are contributing to the death and pain of many others, and that is really really bad.
This is also to show the contrast about those who say "yeah man cancer you know?" while they dont give a crap about it, if they did they wouldnt be smoking it in the first place because of the places it comes from, and that is hypocrite and honestly disdainful.

Just because you can buy it from cartels doesnt mean you should, in fact you should not, but the addiction is too strong, if it wasnt an addiction why would they buy it in the first place? free will? spare me.
To me it removes any and all moral ground for someone who does it to talk about morality or what is right or wrong, its gone, they have no right to even open their mouths about it.

Edit:

Quote: Originally Posted by pain105

this topic is so funny, where those who say, "gateway drug," that's hilarious. where do i begin and never end. cigarettes, let's chase that with some alcohol. coffee not doing it for you? how we spruce that up with supercaffeinatedmochalatted heart-stopping/starting drink that's sure to give you the energy you should have. not enough in the morning for you? try the zillion of energy drinks to give that boost right into the grave. WHAT?! headache? pain? are you in luck. there pills out there that'll make you forget about those things. while slowly destroying you on the inside, but hey, it's legal.

deaths per year

tobacco = 340,000 - 450,000
alcohol = 150,000
aspirin = 180 - 1000+
caffeine = 1,000 - 10,000+
legal drugs, i.e., prescribed meds = 100,000+
illicit drugs = 3,800 - 5,300
marijuana = priceless, i mean "0" in tens of thousands of years.

not one case of any type of cancer or sickness can be attributed to smoking or ingestion of marijuana. it'd be foolish for anyone to say that they have the answer to the legalization of marijuana. but obviously it's not about saving lives.

Not true, i just linked studies that show it can cause lung cancer, it can increase tumor development of some types of cancer, it causes lung scaring and i know someone who suffers from deep panic attacks whenever she smokes weed and someone who had a stroke from it.
So no, it is not harmless and it is simply not very studied, saying there are 0 deaths from weed is silly and untrue. They may not be direct, but im sure there are.
Again, that is a bad type of argument, if you want to argue about something being legalize it you should never say "but the other legal stuff is worst", im sorry but that kind of train of thought is just wrong man, its the same as saying ok, lets put bombs on every car in the world, and every hour, 2 cars blow up, it will kill less people than car accidents, so its ok.

Thats the same logic, sorry for the exaggeration but the logic is the same, and its unacceptable, it only makes sense if you are stoned or are just plain silly.

It is hilarious the amount of people that come to me to buy weed, simply because of the way i dress and the punky style, talk about stereotypes, when i tell them that im a straight edge they go "whaaaat? duuude".
Leads to funny conversations, such as punk is an ideology, one of freedom, which comes out of being able to make decisions without influence, on your own, which any addictive substance denies you that ability, so no thx.

Anyway, im not against legalization, it wont change anything, people can get weed already very easily, police enforcement will still exist, dealers dont just deal weed, its arguably morally wrong to allow yet another substance that is harmful.
But in the end, i dont care, i just really dislike the hypocrisy on it, the idea that it is harmless (its not) the idea that its not addictive (it is) the idea that it does crapall towards your health aside from being a mild anesthetic, the idea that it does not alter behavior (it does) and so forth.
It might be less harmful than alcohol (i hate alcohol actually, i dont hate weed though) but it is still bad.
And we talk about responsible adults? responsible? i guess that is a matter of perspective :D Its not in mine.

Quote:

Honestly I don't count 10 to 30% as addictive. Then there's also this:
What are they addicted to? The drug or the other chemicals released during combustion?

Also bolivarian, i know what addiction is, i had a history with drugs luckily i was strong willed enough to stop before it was too late, even with tobacco i laugh when people go "i stopped smoking! its been 2 months since my last cigar", takes years. That small desire to smoke? that small voice saying "maybe just one, its fine", that is addiction talking.
Addiction does not need to make you feel like sh*t, it just needs to alter your behavior and desires, and weed does.

And that is subjective, you dont consider 30% addictive? not addictive = 0%, 30% is a LOT, its about the same rate as alcohol so what the hell man? :D

bleedlikeme · 12-31-11 at 08:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bolivarian

after several years of smoking pot socially, I've never had an irresistible urge to smoke it as I have with cigarettes in the past.

This statement is 100 percent accurate.

Quote:

Which I might add I quit smoking cigarettes for the carcinogens and not because of the nicotine.

Pack-a-day smoker for 25 years.

I can't seem to break the nicotine habit... Maybe one day

jjesso1993 · 12-31-11 at 08:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bleedlikeme

This statement is 100 percent accurate.

Pack-a-day smoker for 25 years.

I can't seem to break the nicotine habit... Maybe one day

Well that is because, cannabis is no where as additive, its debatable if the evidence suggesting thc as addictive is reliable. Its based upon the fact some I must outline (some disagree ) scientist believe the activity of the the cannabinoid’s receptors being active for so long creates withdrawal symptoms. But this if true would take many many years of smoking large portions of cannabis for cannabinoid’s functions to alter.

However no one I might add has proofed this theory with actual test subjects.

my personal experience when I was young I stopped cannabis at 16 no withdrawal symptoms whats so ever, and I was smoking ounces in single days. I also stop having sleeping problems that I had since I can remember.

What I've always struggle to find answer to though, is why exactly do are brains have cannabinoid receptors for thc ? Is there any scientific theory's to this ?

Fatdawg · 12-31-11 at 08:54 PM

Check out the stoned ape theory. I dont agree with all the parts but some make you think.

Here's Joe Rogan explaining it

Code: Select All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLE

Arguing the addictiveness of marijuana is moot. Mental addiction can range from watching tv to sex. This type of addiction is best delt by a case by case bases and not as a one size fits all policy to the society as a whole.

jjesso1993 · 12-31-11 at 09:06 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Fatdawg

Check out the stoned ape theory. I dont agree with all the parts but some make you think.

Here's Joe Rogan explaining it

Code: Select All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLE

Arguing the addictiveness of marijuana is moot. Mental addiction can range from watching tv to sex. This type of addiction is best delt by a case by case bases and not as a one size fits all policy to the society as a whole.

Unless I see some more damming scientific evidence to suggest THC is addict or any chemical in cannabis then I'm more inclined to believe the opposite. I've always believed strongly that cannabis is more of mental thing. For me I tried to quit smoking many times always gone back, cannabis I've not and I've had no voices in my head telling me too.

12-31-11 at 02:34 PM	#29
pain105 teh security Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: limbo Posts: 1,004	this topic is so funny, where those who say, "gateway drug," that's hilarious. where do i begin and never end. cigarettes, let's chase that with some alcohol. coffee not doing it for you? how we spruce that up with supercaffeinatedmochalatted heart-stopping/starting drink that's sure to give you the energy you should have. not enough in the morning for you? try the zillion of energy drinks to give that boost right into the grave. WHAT?! headache? pain? are you in luck. there pills out there that'll make you forget about those things. while slowly destroying you on the inside, but hey, it's legal. deaths per year tobacco = 340,000 - 450,000 alcohol = 150,000 aspirin = 180 - 1000+ caffeine = 1,000 - 10,000+ legal drugs, i.e., prescribed meds = 100,000+ illicit drugs = 3,800 - 5,300 marijuana = priceless, i mean "0" in tens of thousands of years. not one case of any type of cancer or sickness can be attributed to smoking or ingestion of marijuana. it'd be foolish for anyone to say that they have the answer to the legalization of marijuana. but obviously it's not about saving lives. Last edited by pain105; 12-31-11 at 02:42 PM.

12-31-11 at 03:23 PM	#31
Gandolph13 Legendary Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia (GMT+10) Posts: 12,292	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33 I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha **a and throw themselves off of a cliff. That's my 2 cents... I don't know where you get your comprehension of pot smokers from, or pot itself, obviously, for the pot anyway, not from experience. Seriously, some one must have wronged you big time for some of the apparent hate you openly display in relation to certain subjects (pot and women being the two most obvious). Did your parents smoke pot and hug you too much??? Some of the nicest, most loving, caring people (and some of the smartest) I've ever known have smoked pot, and as for Darwinism, I'd say many were much more intelligent than you. Why do you turn every response into HATE?????????????????????????????????????????????? Your life must really be miserable! Hey, here's a novel idea, it's a new year, just once...SMILE!** Last edited by Gandolph13; 12-31-11 at 03:25 PM.

12-31-11 at 03:38 PM	#32
mis4nthropes Expert Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 556	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33 I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha ***a and throw themselves off of a cliff. That's my 2 cents... Edited. Deleted my comment as your thoughts just aren't worth the time or effort, nor a ban from saying the things I'd like to say. Last edited by mis4nthropes; 12-31-11 at 03:53 PM.

12-31-11 at 06:05 PM	#36
Method512 Is there a character limi Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Jersey (GMT) Posts: 3,302	Quote: Originally Posted by bolivarian Well, historically this hasn't always been the case. Most of the time stupidity has multiplied geometrically... Herein some examples: * Oprah fans * Chia Pet owners * People who purchased Pet Rocks * Folks who drove a Ford Pinto after 1979 * People who still get married after 4 failed tries * Folks who think baseball is a really exciting sport * People who watch Gillian's Island reruns on Hulu * Folks who think Penthouse is an interior decorating magazine * People who like Charlie Sheen * People who don't like playing with breasts ... .. Stupidity abounds, it self-replicates, it's real, burgeoning and NOT going away! :) Cheers my brother. * Note: The above post is meant as an intentional politically incorrect compilations of amazingly out of control statements comprised of paradigms and thought processes not necessarily shared by tehPARADOX or the body that makes up it's online community. Yeah, I agree! What I said would only apply in a fair world. And I agree especially with the ones on green! But the Ford Pinto doesn't look that bad....just saying. :) And pet rocks rock! lol Last edited by Method512; 12-31-11 at 06:06 PM. Reason: update quote

12-31-11 at 07:02 PM	#37
jjesso1993 Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 387	Anyone who looks at cannabis from scientific point of view knows it has no place being illegal when alcohol and cigs are legal. They also would know medical proprieties natural and medical cannabis have, Its been link to cure for Alzheimer's, and is a far better cure for insomnia due to its lack of additive chemicals. Cannabis being illegal actually does more harm than good. It increases public spending and probably makes it easier for kids to get hold off. Now the comment before suggesting cannabis is stepping stone to harder drugs I disagree and slightly agree. The cannabis itself does not do this, someone smoking cannabis would be hanging around with harder drug users in some cases so Its possible that life could lead them that way. Now history (advice people look the history has amazing history ), back 100's and 100's years ago cannabis obviously was legal in many places. It was ones illegal not grow it if you had so much land in England at one point. The reason for legalization was nothing to do with health, its because cannabis did not get mass production that cigs did and became hard for England anyway (don't know about other countries) to tax cannabis, because of the preference to grow your own so they outlawed it. The bottom line is cannabis least needs to be legal for medical purposes, The most amazing scientist of today agree to this, or even legalization. It should in England not be a class B drug for sure, ( epic fail there Gordon you did not even listen to scientist did you ). The last point Like to make is this, when kids learn about drugs and you start Independently doing projects in school on them you tend to relalise that cannabis is lot less dangerous that alcohol. This on whole is big issues as what message does that kids ? that laws don't really make sense. Now I myself, when think about tend lean away from legalization of the drug, my judgment is however clouded due to my childhood, cannabis Itself made me lazy nearly destroyed my ambitions in life, and gave me an addiction to tobacco. Last edited by jjesso1993; 12-31-11 at 07:15 PM.

12-31-11 at 02:40 PM	#30
Gandolph13 Legendary Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia (GMT+10) Posts: 12,292	Oh Pain105, if only I could find that thanks button!

12-31-11 at 03:46 PM	#33
Fatdawg Newcomer Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 41	Quote: Originally Posted by jonmcc33 I'm starting to lean towards being in favor of legalizing it so Darwinism takes effect and all those stoners get high as a motha ****a and throw themselves off of a cliff. That's my 2 cents... This is exactly why the last thread was locked. Jon you might have some good posts but bud you are trolling. This is in no way shape or form constructive, just destructive. My 2 cents is skip over this comment because its just going to devolve the issue.

12-31-11 at 04:48 PM	#34
nuwc Apprentice Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 490	to narub, my university has had a board of professors studying the pros and cons of legalizing marijuana in california since at least 5 years back. They revealed (during the peak of the first voting process) that legalizing it WOULD bring california out of debt, or at least near out of debt. Not only do we get back the hundreds of millions by releasing criminals who were charged with just possession or use of with SPECIFICALLY marijuana, we are able to tax it to the millions of other users properly, just like tobacco is now. like a later poster said, I feel you are just speculating. I trust the work of my professors because I also took part in that statistical work, and the evidence is clear. @gandolph, I've been studying neurobiology for over a year now and it's sad to say you are right. neurobiologists know what drugs or chemicals will help certain ailments better than medicinally prescribed ones, but it is not their place to legalize it based on how it helps people. As an aside, every time I visit tehparadox I grow more attached to the forum and its people because this is literally the first forum I have found where there are sensible people who have RESPECT and knowledge, whether from experience or education, and can formulate a solid argument without angering other people. I f**king love this place.

12-31-11 at 05:47 PM	#35
Method512 Is there a character limi Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Jersey (GMT) Posts: 3,302	I didnt read any posts here but here's my view: Legalize everything. Intelligence will prevail! Stupids will die.

12-31-11 at 07:44 PM	#38
Narubxan Master Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the Twilight Posts: 1,063	Quote: Narubxan, unless I'm misreading you, I disagree with this a lot(respectfully, of course). Just because it is decriminalized does not mean employers would have to deal with people stoned on the job. Like alcohol, I'm certain many/all companies would ban working while stoned. Nor would it mean that teenagers would be running around legally smoking either. Marijuana would likely be regulated much like alcohol is, therefore banning underage use, public intoxication, driving under the influence, etc. Nuhuh, i didnt say that people will be stoned in their jobs (many already are anyway) i just said that the drug tests on the job will still continue, it wont be due to being illegal anymore but it will be doing to employers not wanting it in the work place. Also i always take not agreements respectfully, i would have no right to participate in an argument if im not aware that other people have different opinions :D Quote: I also disagree with this quite a bit too. While it is certainly a large part of some people's lives, this certainly isn't the case with everyone. Personally, I smoke, but absolutely never bring it up with other people(yes, this is anecdotal). Frankly, it's not a very interesting thing to talk about. But, this comment I think is just way too generalized. I'm certain there are people you know and respect who smoke and just don't mention it to you. Basically, you only hear from the ones who talk about it, and not from the ones who don't. It is however, addictive, 10 to 30% addiction rate, 9% being serious addiction, that is all but not being addictive, so thats not even the argument, although yes i do recognize it is a bit generalizing, that is why i used the example of most people that i know, having the "most" there, to make sure its understood there are exceptions. Quote: I'm not saying no one smokes too much or has a dependence on it. I'm also not saying that it's healthy. But, these aren't reasons to criminalize something to the extent we have with marijuana. I'm just saying the criminalization of it is ineffective. As grown adults, I feel our government doesn't have the right to say what we do in our own homes and to our own bodies. Very true, as i mentioned before i dont care, i really really dont, although i do think that adults being responsible should keep in mind kids learn by imitation and should refrain from doing that close to kids, or setting an example of "its ok", not its not, its harmful. While you have the right to screw your own body, you really dont have the right to say its ok to someone else when it really isnt :P Quote: This, also, is a result of the criminalization of marijuana. If it were legally sold and distributed, there would be regulations and no need to buy from the drug cartels. Much like the rise of organized crime and prohibition, this one is actually a pretty good argument for the decriminalization of marijuana. That missed the point man, really did, what i mean is a lot of people do buy it from cartels. Thus are using blood drugs, this is not an argument towards keeping it illegal, this is to show the moral character of people who are too hedonistic and shortsighted to realize that to have their unneeded high they are contributing to the death and pain of many others, and that is really really bad. This is also to show the contrast about those who say "yeah man cancer you know?" while they dont give a crap about it, if they did they wouldnt be smoking it in the first place because of the places it comes from, and that is hypocrite and honestly disdainful. Just because you can buy it from cartels doesnt mean you should, in fact you should not, but the addiction is too strong, if it wasnt an addiction why would they buy it in the first place? free will? spare me. To me it removes any and all moral ground for someone who does it to talk about morality or what is right or wrong, its gone, they have no right to even open their mouths about it. Edit: Quote: Originally Posted by pain105 this topic is so funny, where those who say, "gateway drug," that's hilarious. where do i begin and never end. cigarettes, let's chase that with some alcohol. coffee not doing it for you? how we spruce that up with supercaffeinatedmochalatted heart-stopping/starting drink that's sure to give you the energy you should have. not enough in the morning for you? try the zillion of energy drinks to give that boost right into the grave. WHAT?! headache? pain? are you in luck. there pills out there that'll make you forget about those things. while slowly destroying you on the inside, but hey, it's legal. deaths per year tobacco = 340,000 - 450,000 alcohol = 150,000 aspirin = 180 - 1000+ caffeine = 1,000 - 10,000+ legal drugs, i.e., prescribed meds = 100,000+ illicit drugs = 3,800 - 5,300 marijuana = priceless, i mean "0" in tens of thousands of years. not one case of any type of cancer or sickness can be attributed to smoking or ingestion of marijuana. it'd be foolish for anyone to say that they have the answer to the legalization of marijuana. but obviously it's not about saving lives. Not true, i just linked studies that show it can cause lung cancer, it can increase tumor development of some types of cancer, it causes lung scaring and i know someone who suffers from deep panic attacks whenever she smokes weed and someone who had a stroke from it. So no, it is not harmless and it is simply not very studied, saying there are 0 deaths from weed is silly and untrue. They may not be direct, but im sure there are. Again, that is a bad type of argument, if you want to argue about something being legalize it you should never say "but the other legal stuff is worst", im sorry but that kind of train of thought is just wrong man, its the same as saying ok, lets put bombs on every car in the world, and every hour, 2 cars blow up, it will kill less people than car accidents, so its ok. Thats the same logic, sorry for the exaggeration but the logic is the same, and its unacceptable, it only makes sense if you are stoned or are just plain silly. It is hilarious the amount of people that come to me to buy weed, simply because of the way i dress and the punky style, talk about stereotypes, when i tell them that im a straight edge they go "whaaaat? duuude". Leads to funny conversations, such as punk is an ideology, one of freedom, which comes out of being able to make decisions without influence, on your own, which any addictive substance denies you that ability, so no thx. Anyway, im not against legalization, it wont change anything, people can get weed already very easily, police enforcement will still exist, dealers dont just deal weed, its arguably morally wrong to allow yet another substance that is harmful. But in the end, i dont care, i just really dislike the hypocrisy on it, the idea that it is harmless (its not) the idea that its not addictive (it is) the idea that it does crapall towards your health aside from being a mild anesthetic, the idea that it does not alter behavior (it does) and so forth. It might be less harmful than alcohol (i hate alcohol actually, i dont hate weed though) but it is still bad. And we talk about responsible adults? responsible? i guess that is a matter of perspective :D Its not in mine. Quote: Honestly I don't count 10 to 30% as addictive. Then there's also this: What are they addicted to? The drug or the other chemicals released during combustion? Also bolivarian, i know what addiction is, i had a history with drugs luckily i was strong willed enough to stop before it was too late, even with tobacco i laugh when people go "i stopped smoking! its been 2 months since my last cigar", takes years. That small desire to smoke? that small voice saying "maybe just one, its fine", that is addiction talking. Addiction does not need to make you feel like sht, it just needs to alter your behavior and desires, and weed does. And that is subjective, you dont consider 30% addictive? not addictive = 0%, 30% is a LOT, its about the same rate as alcohol so what the hell man? :D Last edited by Narubxan; 12-31-11 at 08:03 PM.*

12-31-11 at 08:33 PM	#39
bleedlikeme Master Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,062	Quote: Originally Posted by bolivarian after several years of smoking pot socially, I've never had an irresistible urge to smoke it as I have with cigarettes in the past. This statement is 100 percent accurate. Quote: Which I might add I quit smoking cigarettes for the carcinogens and not because of the nicotine. Pack-a-day smoker for 25 years. I can't seem to break the nicotine habit... Maybe one day

12-31-11 at 08:48 PM	#40
jjesso1993 Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 387	Quote: Originally Posted by bleedlikeme This statement is 100 percent accurate. Pack-a-day smoker for 25 years. I can't seem to break the nicotine habit... Maybe one day Well that is because, cannabis is no where as additive, its debatable if the evidence suggesting thc as addictive is reliable. Its based upon the fact some I must outline (some disagree ) scientist believe the activity of the the cannabinoid’s receptors being active for so long creates withdrawal symptoms. But this if true would take many many years of smoking large portions of cannabis for cannabinoid’s functions to alter. However no one I might add has proofed this theory with actual test subjects. my personal experience when I was young I stopped cannabis at 16 no withdrawal symptoms whats so ever, and I was smoking ounces in single days. I also stop having sleeping problems that I had since I can remember. What I've always struggle to find answer to though, is why exactly do are brains have cannabinoid receptors for thc ? Is there any scientific theory's to this ? Last edited by jjesso1993; 12-31-11 at 08:57 PM.

12-31-11 at 08:54 PM	#41
Fatdawg Newcomer Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 41	Check out the stoned ape theory. I dont agree with all the parts but some make you think. Here's Joe Rogan explaining it Code: Select All http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLE Arguing the addictiveness of marijuana is moot. Mental addiction can range from watching tv to sex. This type of addiction is best delt by a case by case bases and not as a one size fits all policy to the society as a whole. Last edited by Fatdawg; 12-31-11 at 09:01 PM.

12-31-11 at 09:06 PM	#42
jjesso1993 Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 387	Quote: Originally Posted by Fatdawg Check out the stoned ape theory. I dont agree with all the parts but some make you think. Here's Joe Rogan explaining it Code: Select All http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUTgPOUdcLE Arguing the addictiveness of marijuana is moot. Mental addiction can range from watching tv to sex. This type of addiction is best delt by a case by case bases and not as a one size fits all policy to the society as a whole. Unless I see some more damming scientific evidence to suggest THC is addict or any chemical in cannabis then I'm more inclined to believe the opposite. I've always believed strongly that cannabis is more of mental thing. For me I tried to quit smoking many times always gone back, cannabis I've not and I've had no voices in my head telling me too.