[thongus]

Quote: Originally Posted by Buku42

If there are other dimensions how could we ever actually observe them? Remember the episode where aliens were experimenting with the crew of the enterprise? They were from another universe, I think, and the space that the enterprise was occupying at the time happened to be where the two universes overlapped. So these creatures were abducting the crew and taking them into the other dimension but still aboard the Enterprise. I think they removed Riker's arm and then reassembled it. I believe the episode was called "Schisms". Anyway ,I wasn't going anywhere with this, just pointing out a good episode.

Ahh a fellow Star Trek lover... I like you more everyday Buku lol!!!

[Gandolph13]

Science has proved the existence of other dimensions with the aid of a particle accelerator, but I can't give you details.
I'm not well, and moving house for the second time in a month isn't helping, so I'm off to bed in 10 (10:30PM) my time.
I will find some details tomorrow if I get a chance between trailer loads.

[Buku42]

I'd love to read about it, if you can post it whenever you get a chance

[acitone]

Gandolph, I saw a special somewhere (possibly the Discovery Channel) where they talked about proving the existence of other dimensions using some kind of energy blasts. They closed a machine that contained the specially concentrated energy particles in it and charged them into each other - the hypothesis was that if there are other dimensions in existence then the explosion would cause these particles to vanish and appear in one or more of those dimensions. Perhaps that's the one you're referring to.

[Gandolph13]

Yes, it was using a particle accelerator.
I haven't really had time to get the information, I'm moving house for the second time in a month, and in a couple of days won't have internet access for possibly a week, but when I have gotten everything sorted out, I will get the details.

[lost411]

Ok i think this is starting to get a little bit ridiculous and very unscientific..

oh yes and SimBoy i watched it. very interesting, just proves my thoughts though that even if there was other advance life out there we wud never find it. lol

[Buku42]

It may sound ridiculous to us, but that doesn't make it untrue or unscientific. Many aspects of science, especially regarding the quantum world, seem to sound ridiculous but are indeed true.

[acitone]

You tell 'em Buku!

[lost411]

yes but also in science if you try find evidence for something you probably will find it, even if it doesnt actually prove anything you could make it out to. But im not so much talking about its imposible, i find hilarious that people think aliens or interdimensional beings (still count as aliens) are secretly watching us from another plane, or walking around looking like us studying us. Humans dont even need study or anything like that, its not like our ways are secret and need to be studied.

[acitone]

lost, do you believe in aliens?

[Buku42]

Quote: Originally Posted by lost411

yes but also in science if you try find evidence for something you probably will find it, even if it doesnt actually prove anything you could make it out to. But im not so much talking about its imposible, i find hilarious that people think aliens or interdimensional beings (still count as aliens) are secretly watching us from another plane, or walking around looking like us studying us. Humans dont even need study or anything like that, its not like our ways are secret and need to be studied.

When raw data is evidence then it's evidence. If there is no evidence to be found, we don't find any. If your a murder suspect and I'm trying to find evidence against you, and I search your home and find the victims blood, that's evidence. There's no two ways about it. There is no fabricating of evidence in these situations. That's why we have no evidence of life elsewhere.
I agree with the second point about being watched and studied. Humans aren't that special that beings from all over the universe would want to come and watch us.

[lost411]

Yes but there is a big difference in what you are saying.

There is raw data, which is then interpreted (by say me or you) into information. Depending on my bias, say weather I want to try prove aliens exist or not I may manipulate that data (intentionally or not) to help prove my argument. Where as some one arguing against me may see that data help prove them right.

Like the people that say look at this calculation that shows the statistical likely hood of advance aliens living in another solar system. Some would say, Wow this proves aliens exist; even though its a very very small number there are so many solar systems that there must be millions of advance life out there. Where as I look at it and see the tiny likely hood, read about the solar systems that are within the 10's or even 20 thousand light years to earth, read about how basically none of them could sustain life, realize that there would be no life anywhere near us either talking statically or probably. So even if there was plenty of advance life further out than that, they would never know we existed and even if they magically did, they would never get here within anything remotely close to our life time even if they were traveling at the speed of light.

[Buku42]

Quote: Originally Posted by lost411

Yes but there is a big difference in what you are saying.

There is raw data, which is then interpreted (by say me or you) into information. Depending on my bias, say weather I want to try prove aliens exist or not I may manipulate that data (intentionally or not) to help prove my argument. Where as some one arguing against me may see that data help prove them right.

But certain evidence is indisputable in one direction. Like, let's say that one of the Mars Rovers discovered skeletal remains. That would be indisputable proof that life once existed on Mars. You couldn't possibly argue against it.

Quote:

Like the people that say look at this calculation that shows the statistical likely hood of advance aliens living in another solar system. Some would say, Wow this proves aliens exist; even though its a very very small number there are so many solar systems that there must be millions of advance life out there. Where as I look at it and see the tiny likely hood, read about the solar systems that are within the 10's or even 20 thousand light years to earth, read about how basically none of them could sustain life, realize that there would be no life anywhere near us either talking statically or probably. So even if there was plenty of advance life further out than that, they would never know we existed and even if they magically did, they would never get here within anything remotely close to our life time even if they were traveling at the speed of light.

I agree with that. Even if let's say they are monitoring for radio transmissions, just like our SETI programs, we have only been transmitting radio waves for about a hundred years or so. That means that even by the small chance, races are out there looking for radio signals around the Earth, the only ones who would have detected us by now would be the ones within a 100 light year radius. So assuming the nearest system with life is 10 or 20 thousand light years away then there's no way that we have been detected yet. But like you said, "even if they magically did", they would have had to have left their home planet before humans existed to get here in our lifetime.

[lost411]

Quote: Originally Posted by Buku42

But certain evidence is indisputable in one direction. Like, let's say that one of the Mars Rovers discovered skeletal remains. That would be indisputable proof that life once existed on Mars. You couldn't possibly argue against it.

Yes, But they havnt. Its just peoples ideas.