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Old 11-25-09, 07:25 PM   #85
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Morgin: I'll give you credit to at least believe in the big bang theory, That's much more than many religious people would ever admit and who's to say that a higher power didn't start the whole process? It's much better than the whole arguement that everything is 6000 years old and god just made everything else "appear" older. Why? to trick us?

I do have an issue about everything being created from nothing (or a single atom) in the big bang theory, I don't remember anywhere that it was a single atom, just a single point in the universe.

We've witnessed supermassive black holes swallowing massive stars, even galaxies into a single point. What happens if that black hole becomes so massive that it swallows everything in a universe sized area? Can it explode, ripping a whole in the fabric of space time and depositing godly amounts of mass into an alternate universe? We don't know....Yet.
We've also witnessed stars/galaxies being born, swallowed by bigger ones and reborn millions of light years away. Is that a natural process of the universe or are we witnessing gods work from millions of years ago?
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Old 11-25-09, 07:27 PM   #86
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Didnt expect that the topic will become such a huge debate but thanks for all the knowledge and info anyway.

So.. the reason that most scientists dont believe in GOD because none of them can prove the GOD's existence. Am i right?
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Old 11-25-09, 07:27 PM   #87
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by bane666 View Post
If the big bang didn't happen the way it happened then we wouldn't be here, but it did and we are.
Your argument doesn't prove god, only that things turned out the way they did.

I could have missed this post and not be having this debate- was thats gods work?
you could have been hit by a bus last week- was that gods work?
tehparadox could have been down due to an evil hacker- is its gods work that its not?
There could have been billions of tiny (or large) events to stop us from debating this topic.
But here we are
your way of thinking is it must have been god otherwise it would not have happened.
My way of thinking is if I wasn't chatting to you about god I would be doing more work LOL

The fact that things are the way they are doesn't prove god. only that events happened the way they happened.

its like a blob on a potato chip looking like christ
To me its people perceiving random chance in a way that gives them comfort
and not Jesus communicating through snack foods

anyway every potato chip jesus I've ever seen looks more like rasputin to me- think about it
funny how you dont believe in God yet you have an avatar That represents the one eye god Raa. Also the one eye represents the antichrist. those two point to religion which in turn confirms a god.
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Old 11-25-09, 07:32 PM   #88
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by vosszaa View Post
Didnt expect that the topic will become such a huge debate but thanks for all the knowledge and info anyway.

So.. the reason that most scientists dont believe in GOD because none of them can prove the GOD's existence. Am i right?
That may be an oversimplification.

Thanks for creating the thread. Off topic has been pretty dead lately so it's nice to see a spark of interesting activity.
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Old 11-25-09, 07:35 PM   #89
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Information Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by vosszaa View Post
So.. the reason that most scientists dont believe in GOD because none of them can prove the GOD's existence. Am i right?
Actually the reason(s) for any given individual to believe or not believe vary and are not necessarily due to lack of proof. By nature we scientists are skeptics. Belief, for some however, transcends the scientific method. In such a case, the scientist will believe regardless of observable evidence.

No one person here, myself included, can suitably answer your question since we have not taken a poll of all scientists. To answer otherwise would be speculation, and any conclusion you draw will, by necessity, be faulty.

Hope that helps

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Old 11-25-09, 07:36 PM   #90
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Gotta run for the night but I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for keeping this debate civil and not letting it degenerate into a bunch of insult slinging.

Also great job to Morgin and Bane!! Nice to see a couple of relative newcomers joining in the discussion and making some great contributions instead of quietly downloading!!! I really enjoyed both your posts and really hope to see you two jumping in more often!
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Old 11-25-09, 07:37 PM   #91
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by vosszaa View Post
Didnt expect that the topic will become such a huge debate but thanks for all the knowledge and info anyway.

So.. the reason that most scientists dont believe in GOD because none of them can prove the GOD's existence. Am i right?
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind”. This quote from Einstein

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

12. Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoLt3GA33kA&feature=player_embedded#
Please code all external links and remove url tags. - Gandolph13

Last edited by Gandolph13; 11-26-09 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 11-25-09, 07:45 PM   #92
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by morgin187 View Post
funny how you dont believe in God yet you have an avatar That represents the one eye god Raa. Also the one eye represents the antichrist. those two point to religion which in turn confirms a god.
The eye of horus has nothing what so ever to do with satanism

unless you believe that anyone who believe in something different (from yourself) is a satanist

And I never said I didn't believe in a god, I just think so called "intelligent design" is an attempt for those with no proof to discredit those with proof.

My idea of god is very different from yours. More eastern philosophy based.
But I've been studying comparative religion for about 20 yrs now, and have a very good understanding of the topic.

Something you appear to lack with your antichrist nonsense!!
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Old 11-25-09, 07:48 PM   #93
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by elitists View Post
Gotta run for the night but I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for keeping this debate civil and not letting it degenerate into a bunch of insult slinging.

Also great job to Morgin and Bane!! Nice to see a couple of relative newcomers joining in the discussion and making some great contributions instead of quietly downloading!!! I really enjoyed both your posts and really hope to see you two jumping in more often!
Thanks

I will jump in more often when i get time

I'm at work at the moment and work is piling up
lol
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Old 11-25-09, 07:51 PM   #94
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Here is as quote by me from my 'Define God' thread back in February:

Quote:
I believe that there is no way we could possibly know but if there is, let's call it a higher power, then here's what I think. I believe something may have set the universe into motion and set the physical laws into play. After that there is no need for any higher power, as the whole universe is self containing with what was set forth at the beginning. Everything that happens from the formation of elements to the existence of life, is allowed without intervention, by what was already there from the beginning. I don't really know if I believe that it is an intelligent, conscious being. And I certainly don't believe that humans were made in it's image. That's why I call it "it". I think it was probably more like a force that existed for the time that was necessary and then ceased. I don't see any kind of evidence that it intervenes in human affairs. By that definition there need not be a higher power anymore. Humans have a habit of using god to explain everything we don't know. I guess that may be what I'm doing now. Because I am confident in the scientific theories which explain the universe, but I am putting a higher power where the Big Bang doesn't explain. The Big Bang doesn't tell us what caused the explosion and it doesn't get into where the laws came from. Now there are two possibilities there. 1)A higher power set the universe and it's laws into motion with the Big Bang. 2)The universe has always existed and the Big Bang is just the beginning in one of many incarnations in a series of expansion followed by collapse. In this case the universe is infinitely old and doesn't need a god to exist at all. personally I haven't decided which one to believe and I don't really need to. I am perfectly content with simply not knowing. Religion to me is for the people who are not content with this lack of knowledge so they seek religion for those answers, which is perfectly ok. Personally my religion is science. I personally am more absorbed with the nature of cosmic dark matter than whether or not there's a god. I would find solving the dark matter mystery far more gratifying than answering the question of god.
So Morgin, I definitely see where you are coming from on many of the points you made. I consider myself agnostic, but I definitely lean toward atheism. I personally just doubt it. But still it is always a possibility, as it will never be proven false. Either way I am content in knowing that I don't know. Therefore [on a personal level], religion has no purpose for me.

It's always fun to have these debates especially when it doesn't get personal. Both of you guys (Morgin & Bane), I hope you guys continue to post here. More intelligent input is always welcome whether I agree with all of it or not, so keep it up.


By the way Morgin, all external links must be coded.
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Old 11-25-09, 07:53 PM   #95
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Information Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by morgin187 View Post
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind”. This quote from Einstein

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
I What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important.

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians,

12. Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century,

Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world,
I'd disagree with this simply because it is another logical fallacy. It is an Appeal to Authority.

If I may quote about that:

Quote:
An appeal to authority is an argument from the fact that a person judged to be an authority affirms a proposition to the claim that the proposition is true.

Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true.
Simply because popular figures claim, or are associated with, religion does not prove the validity of your argument.

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Old 11-25-09, 11:56 PM   #96
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj-hkTGc8N8
another doc that i uploaded showing what a great contribution religion brings the world
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Old 11-26-09, 12:56 AM   #97
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by bane666 View Post
No Prob
I just get frustrated when some people debate evolution without bothering to understand evolution.
You should never debate a subject you don't know well. It only makes you look foolish.
At least learn what its actually about, then if you disagree, and want to debate how it works, thats fine. No problem. But learn about it first.
You pretend you 'understand' evolution. You mean to say you know the why and the how? How against the most fundamental laws of physics, the entropy of all living systems here on earth somehow keep reducing (instead of increasing) over time? It 'just happens' because with infinite systems it 'is bound to happen?' Just like the force and energy (as explained by science) is 'just' there in all matter around us? And the big bang, well, it was 'bound' to happen?

You may have gained more knowledge and even insight into certain matters but everyone being able to reply to a post on a forum has 'some' knowledge about this topic.

In spirit, I tend to agree more with your reasoning then with morgin's, but to imply that people who know less than you do about a subject should refrain from debating it here really reaches a level of arrogance that should be pointed out. Enlighten them/us with your views, your thoughts, your knowledge and findings. Share. Don't shut out.

Job 38: 31-33
"Can you arrange stars in groups such as Orion and the Pleiades?
Do you control the stars or set in place the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper?
Do you know the laws that govern the heavens, and can you make them rule
the earth?"

We're all searching here. We're all welcome to debate.
Truth be told, the later posts show a way more tolerant attitude towards different arguments and questions. That's the bummer of trying to get updated on a thread with so much activity in a night's sleep. Hmm… maybe I should first read all the posts :p

Quote: Originally Posted by bane666 View Post
But I suspect that debate you is somewhat pointless as you have made up your mind and nothing is going to change it.
Which is not a logical way to live life in my point of view.
But each to their own.
Seems you're right here. Being open minded in discussions like these is very very hard. For all of us. Especially religious people tend to debate with an agenda next to the ego simply wanting to be right. Is why I stopped debating this fascinating topic with people who rang at my door bell.

Quote: Originally Posted by Buku42 View Post
Thanks for creating the thread. Off topic has been pretty dead lately so it's nice to see a spark of interesting activity.
Yup. First a few weeks almost empty, then suddenly four pages of posts during a sleep session

Last edited by Arizona; 11-26-09 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 11-26-09, 01:04 AM   #98
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Default Re: Why are most scientists atheists?

Quote: Originally Posted by Mandy1984 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj-hkTGc8N8
another doc that i uploaded showing what a great contribution religion brings the world
FYI: "This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions. " I can't watch it :(
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