[REQUEST HELP] want to have a home server (support 3tb 3.5"hdd)

billes · 07-07-12 at 12:29 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick

That sounds better yet but a server indicates you want/need to let people from the internet connect to the server. A NAS has no internet connection capabilities.

Like I said, I don't think he has any idea of what capabilities he needs.

Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself and reading out of context. He simple wants a home server to access his files among his home network. Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network. And He probably wants RAID just for the speed, SSD's aren't the end all answer. Well not yet any ways. And what was that about RAID is no good as a backup? RAID can be a great way to backup without any performance loss. Especially with RAID1 or a 0+1

mecagoendiez · 07-07-12 at 12:40 PM

I have my little MSI U-270 notbook (not-netbook) all day downloading by uTorrent and/or Mipony/JDownloader.

It has 4GB DDR3/1333, 250GB Hard disk and an AMD E-350.
It can play 1080p smoothly on my 22.5" LG W2243S while i browse the net searching for links.
And it will uncompress DL'ed files on background while i'm doing something else. It does not uncompress as fast as the Athlon x3 or the Phenom x3 i have on my deskops, but is not much slower either since the task is limited by hard disk and network speeds.

Soo... you dont need a humongous spec'ed computer to do that.
Any Celeron G5xx/PentiumG6xx will make it.
If you also want to play some games, you will be better on an AMD A4/6/8 APU due it's better integrated GPU.

IRL_Drizzt · 07-07-12 at 12:45 PM

it's not for gaming.... it's only as a backup device / multimedia player on 37" LG tv (by master hdd with my data)

mecagoendiez · 07-07-12 at 12:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by billes

Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself and reading out of context. He simple wants a home server to access his files among his home network. Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network. And He probably wants RAID just for the speed, SSD's aren't the end all answer. Well not yet any ways. And what was that about RAID is no good as a backup? RAID can be a great way to backup without any performance loss. Especially with RAID1 or a 0+1

I think oldhippierick is right, not meaning you're wrong, but i think the way to face this is more on a "home user" side than a "datacenter" one.

On a home network, you dont need RAID, and even if you use RAID it "will not" give you better performance over the network. You may have a gigalan network, but you will not have dozens of users at a time trying to acces the resources. You may have at most 2 or 3 users. And for a short period of time.

If you use 4HD to achieve 6TB, you are lossing 50% storage capacity. And, if 1 disk breaks you "have to" go an buy another one to replace.
If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs

For a home system, you may (and maybe you should) have at most 2 disk for normal use and 2 disk for backup.
Just download to 2 disks, use them as host for playing movies, use them as shared folder over the network, and once a week you copy them/clone them over the other 2 disks.
You'll have a better backup system for a home network system, and the backup disks will have a better life. (disks shut down if not used for a while, but on a RAID they're all the time "on")

EDIT: Instead of cloning disks you may use a software to only copy new files over. Wich will be even better to longer disk life.

EDIT2: If is not for gaming, then use anything you like the most, even an AMD E-450 will do that job greatly. But, anything a bit bigger will be good.

IRL_Drizzt · 07-07-12 at 12:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by mecagoendiez

"home user" side. If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs

EDIT: Instead of cloning disks you may use a software to only copy new files over. Wich will be even better to longer disk life.

EDIT2: If is not for gaming, then use anything you like the most, even an AMD E-450 will do that job greatly. But, anything a bit bigger will be good.

YES mate exactly what I want! use 4HD to achieve 12TB - Home User

-------------------

EDIT 1 : What out there would suit me to the ground?

But only buy the device with 3tb internal hdd x2 (what brand Western Digital or Seagate)????

EDIT 2 : So would this suit me or not?

Code: Select All

http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/store/Product.aspx?C=1014&SC=1038&ID=1473#Tab0

EDIT 3 :

Code: Select All

http://www.pugetsystems.com/configmenu.php

thanks

**OldHippieRick** · 07-08-12 at 08:18 AM

Quote:

And He probably wants RAID just for the speed,

The only RAID that gives speed improvement is RAID0 which is totally inappropriate for any type of storage/server use.

Quote:

Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network

A server catagory has many different branches but a true server connects outside of your LAN to the internet. With the proliferation of media devices many definations have been blended.

Quote:

If you use 4HD to achieve 6TB, you are lossing 50% storage capacity. And, if 1 disk breaks you "have to" go an buy another one to replace.
If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs

You sure you don't have this wrong or am I just missing something?

This thread is getting to be a little too much for me.

Good Luck! :)

**OldHippieRick** · 07-08-12 at 08:23 AM

Just go here and pick a media server that fits your needs.

Code: Select All

http://www.google.com/#q=media+server&hl=en&prmd=imvnsra&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=KaP5T5qdHqm06wG14K38Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CIEBELMY&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=f23b631bca303931&biw=1920&bih=1111

Good Luck!

IRL_Drizzt · 07-11-12 at 01:33 AM

thanks so much :D

voodu · 07-11-12 at 10:09 AM

I use FlexRaid for my media drives (movies etc).

I've got 4x2TB data drives (with movies) and 1x2TB parity drive.

If a data drive dies, the parity drive allows me to pop in a new drive and recreate all the data that was on the dead one.

It might sound like RAID but its not a traditional type of RAID. Its more like a simple synced backup (ie Syntoy) but instead of 1:1 it has the space efficiency of some RAID configurations.

You really need to research it and understand it before deciding if it suits your needs.

**OldHippieRick** · 07-11-12 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

I've got 4x2TB data drives (with movies) and 1x2TB parity drive.

And I undersatnd what you're saying but when ALL the drives are interconnected ANY fault that introduced to the main drives will be REPLICATED to the remaining drives.

It's just that simple.

RAID was made for continuing uptime on websites not as a back-up.

To me it's ridiculous to wast space on RAID5 or 1 on something like a movie.

If you actually have any data that needs saved it must be on media that can be completely removed from the computer.

All my email/passwords/bank account info are kept in different places on different media and YES it does take some time to do it every other week.

You can play with RAID-whatever you want but when you have important info I suggest you treat it as such. :)

voodu · 07-11-12 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

And I undersatnd what you're saying but when ALL the drives are interconnected ANY fault that introduced to the main drives will be REPLICATED to the remaining drives.

Well you don't understand what im saying because im not running RAID 5. I already said im not running a traditional RAID level.

What im running is non-striped fully independent disks, plus a parity drive. Each drive is completely normal and separate, with its own file system and fully intact files.

billes · 07-12-12 at 12:52 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick

A server catagory has many different branches but a true server connects outside of your LAN to the internet. With the proliferation of media devices many definations have been blended.

Now that's just some pseudo crap right there. Never was the term every original intended external internet access. Server refers to a dedicated job. May it be a database, renderer, dedicated IPs for devices, ect. There is nothing wrong with having a htpc and a media server together. Why you are pushing the OP in the direction of a NAS, after he had requested media center functions, is biased towards your familiar setup.

And on the subject of running RAID on a home server, its fine. It's pretty safe to assume that the OP has abandoned the idea. But the subject is still worth some conversation. NO one here has yet once consider in their posts the up time of the drives or the lack actual activity they will see in a home setup. What kills a good raid setup is hardware failure. If you take in consideration the minimal use it will see, raid arrays can last just as long as any typical backup setup. But there is a huge consensus here that RAID is a waste of money. Double the price, half the space. But the fact of the matter is that running backup software also requires additional space and the additional drive for safety. Also comes out to being, double the price and half the space, but also double the processes. And when you get down to the big picture, both directions are Backing up what essentially is already the backup. Isn't this where redundancy is most valued. As you all mentioned already, RAID in terms of Data Centers is more relevant to uptime. Why is this bad for home use. Do you not get pissed when your HDD fails, and you then have to rebuild your system, and possible everything else, from scratch. RAID 1 ensures that if 1 hard drive fails, the other can be its replacement. In a practical sense its more of a band aid, as the clone drive has the same physical wear time and possible same manufacturing faults. But it works well enough to get you running again. Giving time to fix the problem, while removing downtime. In both cases of RAID and traditional backup, your still out 1 drive needing for replacement. Now the subject of raid and bad sectors is well... subjective. Can be particular to how certain RAID hardware or software handles it.

And whats everyone's beef with RAID 5? You still pertain a decent amount of the original capacity, while keeping what is essentially a master image, with a parity drive.

**Oamey** · 07-12-12 at 08:56 AM

Pick up a nettop with integrated intel graphics (should handle streaming fine) & connect a multi bay external to it. You'll probably want usb 3.0/eSata

**OldHippieRick** · 07-12-12 at 11:31 AM

Quote:

Why you are pushing the OP in the direction of a NAS, after he had requested media center functions, is biased towards your familiar setup.

I never pushed him toward anything but was trying to figure out what he wanted because he didn't know what he wanted..

If you'll notice the last link I gave him was for media servers.

I'm not going to bother discussing RAID with you.

The facts are known/out there and have been discussed to death but if you (or your e-pin) has the need "go for it". :)

I've been there/done that and if your movie collection/porn/games needs to be ready at all times with no interruptions I'd say it's a necessity.

As long as you have a current back-up for your personal data you can go for a much RAID as your wallet desires. LOL!

07-07-12 at 12:29 PM	#15
billes Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 252	Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick That sounds better yet but a server indicates you want/need to let people from the internet connect to the server. A NAS has no internet connection capabilities. Like I said, I don't think he has any idea of what capabilities he needs. Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself and reading out of context. He simple wants a home server to access his files among his home network. Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network. And He probably wants RAID just for the speed, SSD's aren't the end all answer. Well not yet any ways. And what was that about RAID is no good as a backup? RAID can be a great way to backup without any performance loss. Especially with RAID1 or a 0+1 Last edited by billes; 07-07-12 at 12:32 PM.

07-07-12 at 12:50 PM	#18
mecagoendiez Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 378	Quote: Originally Posted by billes Think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself and reading out of context. He simple wants a home server to access his files among his home network. Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network. And He probably wants RAID just for the speed, SSD's aren't the end all answer. Well not yet any ways. And what was that about RAID is no good as a backup? RAID can be a great way to backup without any performance loss. Especially with RAID1 or a 0+1 I think oldhippierick is right, not meaning you're wrong, but i think the way to face this is more on a "home user" side than a "datacenter" one. On a home network, you dont need RAID, and even if you use RAID it "will not" give you better performance over the network. You may have a gigalan network, but you will not have dozens of users at a time trying to acces the resources. You may have at most 2 or 3 users. And for a short period of time. If you use 4HD to achieve 6TB, you are lossing 50% storage capacity. And, if 1 disk breaks you "have to" go an buy another one to replace. If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs For a home system, you may (and maybe you should) have at most 2 disk for normal use and 2 disk for backup. Just download to 2 disks, use them as host for playing movies, use them as shared folder over the network, and once a week you copy them/clone them over the other 2 disks. You'll have a better backup system for a home network system, and the backup disks will have a better life. (disks shut down if not used for a while, but on a RAID they're all the time "on") EDIT: Instead of cloning disks you may use a software to only copy new files over. Wich will be even better to longer disk life. EDIT2: If is not for gaming, then use anything you like the most, even an AMD E-450 will do that job greatly. But, anything a bit bigger will be good. Last edited by mecagoendiez; 07-07-12 at 12:55 PM.

07-07-12 at 12:57 PM	#19
IRL_Drizzt Novice Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 128	Quote: Originally Posted by mecagoendiez "home user" side. If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs EDIT: Instead of cloning disks you may use a software to only copy new files over. Wich will be even better to longer disk life. EDIT2: If is not for gaming, then use anything you like the most, even an AMD E-450 will do that job greatly. But, anything a bit bigger will be good. YES mate exactly what I want! use 4HD to achieve 12TB - Home User ------------------- EDIT 1 : What out there would suit me to the ground? But only buy the device with 3tb internal hdd x2 (what brand Western Digital or Seagate)???? EDIT 2 : So would this suit me or not? Code: Select All http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/store/Product.aspx?C=1014&SC=1038&ID=1473#Tab0 EDIT 3 : Code: Select All http://www.pugetsystems.com/configmenu.php thanks Last edited by IRL_Drizzt; 07-07-12 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Edited not to double-post :D

07-12-12 at 12:52 AM	#26
billes Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 252	Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick A server catagory has many different branches but a true server connects outside of your LAN to the internet. With the proliferation of media devices many definations have been blended. Now that's just some pseudo crap right there. Never was the term every original intended external internet access. Server refers to a dedicated job. May it be a database, renderer, dedicated IPs for devices, ect. There is nothing wrong with having a htpc and a media server together. Why you are pushing the OP in the direction of a NAS, after he had requested media center functions, is biased towards your familiar setup. And on the subject of running RAID on a home server, its fine. It's pretty safe to assume that the OP has abandoned the idea. But the subject is still worth some conversation. NO one here has yet once consider in their posts the up time of the drives or the lack actual activity they will see in a home setup. What kills a good raid setup is hardware failure. If you take in consideration the minimal use it will see, raid arrays can last just as long as any typical backup setup. But there is a huge consensus here that RAID is a waste of money. Double the price, half the space. But the fact of the matter is that running backup software also requires additional space and the additional drive for safety. Also comes out to being, double the price and half the space, but also double the processes. And when you get down to the big picture, both directions are Backing up what essentially is already the backup. Isn't this where redundancy is most valued. As you all mentioned already, RAID in terms of Data Centers is more relevant to uptime. Why is this bad for home use. Do you not get pissed when your HDD fails, and you then have to rebuild your system, and possible everything else, from scratch. RAID 1 ensures that if 1 hard drive fails, the other can be its replacement. In a practical sense its more of a band aid, as the clone drive has the same physical wear time and possible same manufacturing faults. But it works well enough to get you running again. Giving time to fix the problem, while removing downtime. In both cases of RAID and traditional backup, your still out 1 drive needing for replacement. Now the subject of raid and bad sectors is well... subjective. Can be particular to how certain RAID hardware or software handles it. And whats everyone's beef with RAID 5? You still pertain a decent amount of the original capacity, while keeping what is essentially a master image, with a parity drive. Last edited by billes; 07-12-12 at 01:32 AM.

07-07-12 at 12:40 PM	#16
mecagoendiez Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 378	I have my little MSI U-270 notbook (not-netbook) all day downloading by uTorrent and/or Mipony/JDownloader. It has 4GB DDR3/1333, 250GB Hard disk and an AMD E-350. It can play 1080p smoothly on my 22.5" LG W2243S while i browse the net searching for links. And it will uncompress DL'ed files on background while i'm doing something else. It does not uncompress as fast as the Athlon x3 or the Phenom x3 i have on my deskops, but is not much slower either since the task is limited by hard disk and network speeds. Soo... you dont need a humongous spec'ed computer to do that. Any Celeron G5xx/PentiumG6xx will make it. If you also want to play some games, you will be better on an AMD A4/6/8 APU due it's better integrated GPU.

07-07-12 at 12:45 PM	#17
IRL_Drizzt Novice Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 128	it's not for gaming.... it's only as a backup device / multimedia player on 37" LG tv (by master hdd with my data)

07-08-12 at 08:18 AM	#20
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 717	Quote: And He probably wants RAID just for the speed, The only RAID that gives speed improvement is RAID0 which is totally inappropriate for any type of storage/server use. Quote: Server in no way implies the need to have access from outside his network A server catagory has many different branches but a true server connects outside of your LAN to the internet. With the proliferation of media devices many definations have been blended. Quote: If you use 4HD to achieve 6TB, you are lossing 50% storage capacity. And, if 1 disk breaks you "have to" go an buy another one to replace. If you use 4HD to achieve 12TB, you're getting full storage capacity, no performance loss over the network, and if one disk breaks, you "have not" to go and buy another. You can still be uising the other 3 working HDs You sure you don't have this wrong or am I just missing something? This thread is getting to be a little too much for me. Good Luck! :)

07-11-12 at 01:33 AM	#22
IRL_Drizzt Novice Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 128	thanks so much :D

07-11-12 at 10:09 AM	#23
voodu Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 317	I use FlexRaid for my media drives (movies etc). I've got 4x2TB data drives (with movies) and 1x2TB parity drive. If a data drive dies, the parity drive allows me to pop in a new drive and recreate all the data that was on the dead one. It might sound like RAID but its not a traditional type of RAID. Its more like a simple synced backup (ie Syntoy) but instead of 1:1 it has the space efficiency of some RAID configurations. You really need to research it and understand it before deciding if it suits your needs.

07-11-12 at 02:08 PM	#24
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 717	Quote: I've got 4x2TB data drives (with movies) and 1x2TB parity drive. And I undersatnd what you're saying but when ALL the drives are interconnected ANY fault that introduced to the main drives will be REPLICATED to the remaining drives. It's just that simple. RAID was made for continuing uptime on websites not as a back-up. To me it's ridiculous to wast space on RAID5 or 1 on something like a movie. If you actually have any data that needs saved it must be on media that can be completely removed from the computer. All my email/passwords/bank account info are kept in different places on different media and YES it does take some time to do it every other week. You can play with RAID-whatever you want but when you have important info I suggest you treat it as such. :)

07-11-12 at 03:30 PM	#25
voodu Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 317	Quote: And I undersatnd what you're saying but when ALL the drives are interconnected ANY fault that introduced to the main drives will be REPLICATED to the remaining drives. Well you don't understand what im saying because im not running RAID 5. I already said im not running a traditional RAID level. What im running is non-striped fully independent disks, plus a parity drive. Each drive is completely normal and separate, with its own file system and fully intact files.

07-12-12 at 08:56 AM	#27
Oamey Professional Garden Gnome Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: USA Posts: 200	Pick up a nettop with integrated intel graphics (should handle streaming fine) & connect a multi bay external to it. You'll probably want usb 3.0/eSata

07-12-12 at 11:31 AM	#28
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 717	Quote: Why you are pushing the OP in the direction of a NAS, after he had requested media center functions, is biased towards your familiar setup. I never pushed him toward anything but was trying to figure out what he wanted because he didn't know what he wanted.. If you'll notice the last link I gave him was for media servers. I'm not going to bother discussing RAID with you. The facts are known/out there and have been discussed to death but if you (or your e-pin) has the need "go for it". :) I've been there/done that and if your movie collection/porn/games needs to be ready at all times with no interruptions I'd say it's a necessity. As long as you have a current back-up for your personal data you can go for a much RAID as your wallet desires. LOL!