8 GB of Deleted files still there after 2 years... WTF??!!!

**mail2tom** · 05-19-12 at 07:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD

Thanks for your input everyone! Have to say that some of you are missing the point. I deleted these files 2 years ago and while they didn't show up in the Recycle Bin they were still being reported by Windows as active(?) files taking up space. As soon as I deleted them via Treesize the used space on my hard drive immediately dropped from 90 GB down to 82 GB. This isn't about the fact that when you delete a file portions of it remain on your hard drive until overwritten. Instead, Windoze hadn't properly deleted the files. Ironically that archive was the only group of files that hadn't been properly deleted by the OS. And I always try to defrag weekly, so that's not the culprit. Again, my IT manager friend says this is caused by a rare bug in Windows that's been hanging around since NT. That's why I was hoping more of you would try Treesize as you might be surprised, like I was.

Cheers!

I will.

**kevkevt** · 05-20-12 at 12:36 AM

Full version would be good not trial :)

voodu · 05-20-12 at 07:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD

Thanks for your input everyone! Have to say that some of you are missing the point. I deleted these files 2 years ago and while they didn't show up in the Recycle Bin they were still being reported by Windows as active(?) files taking up space. As soon as I deleted them via Treesize the used space on my hard drive immediately dropped from 90 GB down to 82 GB. This isn't about the fact that when you delete a file portions of it remain on your hard drive until overwritten. Instead, Windoze hadn't properly deleted the files. Ironically that archive was the only group of files that hadn't been properly deleted by the OS. And I always try to defrag weekly, so that's not the culprit. Again, my IT manager friend says this is caused by a rare bug in Windows that's been hanging around since NT. That's why I was hoping more of you would try Treesize as you might be surprised, like I was.

Cheers!

According to your first post, they were only reported as taking up space after you had a bunch of BSODs and a failing power supply.

So your problem is not caused by a Windows bug, it is caused by your unstable system. Losing power can cause corruption of the file system and when you ran startup repair Windows has seen fragments of long-ago deleted files and recovered them.

In future you should not run your system on an unstable power supply, it is only common sense.

**PhoenixBSD** · 05-20-12 at 08:22 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by voodu

According to your first post, they were only reported as taking up space after you had a bunch of BSODs and a failing power supply.

So your problem is not caused by a Windows bug, it is caused by your unstable system. Losing power can cause corruption of the file system and when you ran startup repair Windows has seen fragments of long-ago deleted files and recovered them.

Wrong Wrong Wrong! Sorry to disappoint you but the few BSODs only started fairly recently because of the failing power supply. And the files I'm talking about were 'deleted' by me 2 years ago but have continued to be a part of the used hard drive space for the past 2 years. I know this because I keep an eye on the used/free space on my hard drive. The fact is those files were never properly deleted by the OS which, again, is a known Windows bug. And since the 8 GB of used space didn't miraculously appear after the repair I'm sure those files weren't recovered by Windoze Startup repair.

Quote: Originally Posted by voodu

In future you should not run your system on an unstable power supply, it is only common sense.

Thanks for the smartass comment. Had I known the power supply was failing of course I would have immediately replaced it. Other than those few BSODs during boot-up over the course of a few weeks and a few oddities with my external monitor there was no sign of impending doom and the computer has been running perfectly. Luckily, the monitor problems (occasionally switching back to the laptop display) also ceased after replacing the failing laptop power supply with the docking station.

Thanks for trying to help, but in the future please read and try to understand the complete post before responding.

**OldHippieRick** · 05-20-12 at 08:42 AM

Just wondering.....since those files had not been deleted in 2 years were the other files that have been deleted since then still intact also?

Or haven't you deleted anything else?

I actually "empty" my recycled bin which deletes the files from the drive.

Code: Select All

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/permanently-delete-files-from-the-recycle-bin

Does this sound like a flaw to you or am I misunderstanding the situation?

voodu · 05-20-12 at 08:55 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD

Wrong Wrong Wrong! Sorry to disappoint you but the few BSODs only started fairly recently because of the failing power supply. And the files I'm talking about were 'deleted' by me 2 years ago but have continued to be a part of the used hard drive space for the past 2 years.

You are contradicting yourself:

"No worries, loaded Windoze normally and everything was fine, until I noticed that used space on the hard drive had increased about 10-12 GB."

So in this quoted post above you are saying you only noticed missing space after your BSOD and crashes.

You simply don't understand how an OS works mate. If you want files to be 'properly' deleted then you need to delete both the pointers to the files and also overwrite 0s to all the sectors that the file(s) reside on.

Operating systems don't do that because it would thrash your disk every time you deleted a file...if you delete a 8GB file then it would write 8GB of 0s to the disk, which would take about 80 seconds at high priority on a fast mechnical HDD (100MB/s) or even longer at low priority or with a slower disk.

This would be unnacceptable for most users because they would experience it as freeze-ups or unresponsiveness.

Its the same in all OSs. The actual data from deleted files stays on the disk until it is gradually overwritten by new files.

**moofburger** · 05-20-12 at 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by voodu

You are contradicting yourself:.

No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned.

It's a known issue:

Code: Select All

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688

Thanks for the tip Phoenix' - will deff' scope this one out!

**Noledox** · 05-20-12 at 11:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger

No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned.

It's a known issue:

Code: Select All

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688

Thanks for the tip Phoenix' - will deff' scope this one out!

If the files were taking up 8GB of space all along, why did he just notice? He did say that the used space had increased.

Quote:

until I noticed that used space on the hard drive had increased about 10-12 GB.

If the reported used space changed, wouldn't that mean that the free space did too, and imply that the space was not allocated to those files all along?

Note, these questions are not facetious on my part.

**clenchdwarf** · 05-21-12 at 12:40 AM

WinDirStat is another good (and free) utility for figuring out graphically where your drive space has gone to.

Code: Select All

http://windirstat.info/

If files were deleted by someone logged on as a different user, they won't be visible in your recycle bin. I've run into this a few times when cleaning up office computers. If you can't log on as that user, it IS possible to rename that recycle bin and browse the contents. Which sometimes tells you more than you needed to know about the kinds of videos that former co-workers liked to download and watch. (If anyone particularly wants to know how, PM me and I'll see if I can find where I made a note of what I did.) (Also, that would have been on an older version of Windows, like XP or 2000.)

**OldHippieRick** · 05-21-12 at 06:51 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger

No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned.

It's a known issue:

Code: Select All

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688

That's for Windows XP & Windows 2000......He's using w7.

**moofburger** · 05-21-12 at 10:41 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick

That's for Windows XP & Windows 2000......He's using w7.

Its about volume bitmap errors in NTFS, Win 7 still uses NTFS.

**OldHippieRick** · 05-21-12 at 11:25 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger

Its about volume bitmap errors in NTFS, Win 7 still uses NTFS.

Yes, but it's not the same OS and was corrected with Vista.

mrvybz · 05-21-12 at 09:04 PM

wow guys these thread is getting heated....now!!! now!!! let's try to relax

05-20-12 at 08:42 AM	#19
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 710	Just wondering.....since those files had not been deleted in 2 years were the other files that have been deleted since then still intact also? Or haven't you deleted anything else? I actually "empty" my recycled bin which deletes the files from the drive. Code: Select All http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-vista/permanently-delete-files-from-the-recycle-bin Does this sound like a flaw to you or am I misunderstanding the situation?

05-20-12 at 08:55 AM	#20
voodu Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 317	Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD Wrong Wrong Wrong! Sorry to disappoint you but the few BSODs only started fairly recently because of the failing power supply. And the files I'm talking about were 'deleted' by me 2 years ago but have continued to be a part of the used hard drive space for the past 2 years. You are contradicting yourself: "No worries, loaded Windoze normally and everything was fine, until I noticed that used space on the hard drive had increased about 10-12 GB." So in this quoted post above you are saying you only noticed missing space after your BSOD and crashes. You simply don't understand how an OS works mate. If you want files to be 'properly' deleted then you need to delete both the pointers to the files and also overwrite 0s to all the sectors that the file(s) reside on. Operating systems don't do that because it would thrash your disk every time you deleted a file...if you delete a 8GB file then it would write 8GB of 0s to the disk, which would take about 80 seconds at high priority on a fast mechnical HDD (100MB/s) or even longer at low priority or with a slower disk. This would be unnacceptable for most users because they would experience it as freeze-ups or unresponsiveness. Its the same in all OSs. The actual data from deleted files stays on the disk until it is gradually overwritten by new files. Last edited by voodu; 05-20-12 at 08:57 AM.

05-20-12 at 09:45 AM	#21
moofburger Illuminati P.R. Dept Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Hidden by the FBI Tactless Protection Program Posts: 2,574	Quote: Originally Posted by voodu You are contradicting yourself:. No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned. It's a known issue: Code: Select All http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688 Thanks for the tip Phoenix' - will deff' scope this one out!

05-20-12 at 11:56 PM	#22
Noledox Bad command or file name Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Terra Incognita Posts: 2,709	Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned. It's a known issue: Code: Select All http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688 Thanks for the tip Phoenix' - will deff' scope this one out! If the files were taking up 8GB of space all along, why did he just notice? He did say that the used space had increased. Quote: until I noticed that used space on the hard drive had increased about 10-12 GB. If the reported used space changed, wouldn't that mean that the free space did too, and imply that the space was not allocated to those files all along? Note, these questions are not facetious on my part. Last edited by Noledox; 05-21-12 at 12:08 AM.

05-21-12 at 12:40 AM	#23
clenchdwarf Expert Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 803	WinDirStat is another good (and free) utility for figuring out graphically where your drive space has gone to. Code: Select All http://windirstat.info/ If files were deleted by someone logged on as a different user, they won't be visible in your recycle bin. I've run into this a few times when cleaning up office computers. If you can't log on as that user, it IS possible to rename that recycle bin and browse the contents. Which sometimes tells you more than you needed to know about the kinds of videos that former co-workers liked to download and watch. (If anyone particularly wants to know how, PM me and I'll see if I can find where I made a note of what I did.) (Also, that would have been on an older version of Windows, like XP or 2000.)

05-19-12 at 07:42 PM	#15
mail2tom Apprentice Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 475	Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD Thanks for your input everyone! Have to say that some of you are missing the point. I deleted these files 2 years ago and while they didn't show up in the Recycle Bin they were still being reported by Windows as active(?) files taking up space. As soon as I deleted them via Treesize the used space on my hard drive immediately dropped from 90 GB down to 82 GB. This isn't about the fact that when you delete a file portions of it remain on your hard drive until overwritten. Instead, Windoze hadn't properly deleted the files. Ironically that archive was the only group of files that hadn't been properly deleted by the OS. And I always try to defrag weekly, so that's not the culprit. Again, my IT manager friend says this is caused by a rare bug in Windows that's been hanging around since NT. That's why I was hoping more of you would try Treesize as you might be surprised, like I was. Cheers! I will.

05-20-12 at 12:36 AM	#16
kevkevt Newcomer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: uk Posts: 69	Full version would be good not trial :)

05-20-12 at 07:24 AM	#17
voodu Apprentice Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 317	Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixBSD Thanks for your input everyone! Have to say that some of you are missing the point. I deleted these files 2 years ago and while they didn't show up in the Recycle Bin they were still being reported by Windows as active(?) files taking up space. As soon as I deleted them via Treesize the used space on my hard drive immediately dropped from 90 GB down to 82 GB. This isn't about the fact that when you delete a file portions of it remain on your hard drive until overwritten. Instead, Windoze hadn't properly deleted the files. Ironically that archive was the only group of files that hadn't been properly deleted by the OS. And I always try to defrag weekly, so that's not the culprit. Again, my IT manager friend says this is caused by a rare bug in Windows that's been hanging around since NT. That's why I was hoping more of you would try Treesize as you might be surprised, like I was. Cheers! According to your first post, they were only reported as taking up space after you had a bunch of BSODs and a failing power supply. So your problem is not caused by a Windows bug, it is caused by your unstable system. Losing power can cause corruption of the file system and when you ran startup repair Windows has seen fragments of long-ago deleted files and recovered them. In future you should not run your system on an unstable power supply, it is only common sense.

05-20-12 at 08:22 AM	#18
PhoenixBSD Luminiferous Ether Sailor Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Thailand Posts: 1,598	Quote: Originally Posted by voodu According to your first post, they were only reported as taking up space after you had a bunch of BSODs and a failing power supply. So your problem is not caused by a Windows bug, it is caused by your unstable system. Losing power can cause corruption of the file system and when you ran startup repair Windows has seen fragments of long-ago deleted files and recovered them. Wrong Wrong Wrong! Sorry to disappoint you but the few BSODs only started fairly recently because of the failing power supply. And the files I'm talking about were 'deleted' by me 2 years ago but have continued to be a part of the used hard drive space for the past 2 years. I know this because I keep an eye on the used/free space on my hard drive. The fact is those files were never properly deleted by the OS which, again, is a known Windows bug. And since the 8 GB of used space didn't miraculously appear after the repair I'm sure those files weren't recovered by Windoze Startup repair. Quote: Originally Posted by voodu In future you should not run your system on an unstable power supply, it is only common sense. Thanks for the smartass comment. Had I known the power supply was failing of course I would have immediately replaced it. Other than those few BSODs during boot-up over the course of a few weeks and a few oddities with my external monitor there was no sign of impending doom and the computer has been running perfectly. Luckily, the monitor problems (occasionally switching back to the laptop display) also ceased after replacing the failing laptop power supply with the docking station. Thanks for trying to help, but in the future please read and try to understand the complete post before responding.

05-21-12 at 06:51 AM	#24
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 710	Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger No he isn't. He deleted the files 2 years ago, but Windows never properly updated the HDD volume bitmap to free up the space those files had taken up on the HDD. As far as the OS was concerned those sectors were still in use, even though the files had long since been trashed as far as the user was concerned. It's a known issue: Code: Select All http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315688 That's for Windows XP & Windows 2000......He's using w7.

05-21-12 at 10:41 AM	#25
moofburger Illuminati P.R. Dept Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Hidden by the FBI Tactless Protection Program Posts: 2,574	Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick That's for Windows XP & Windows 2000......He's using w7. Its about volume bitmap errors in NTFS, Win 7 still uses NTFS.

05-21-12 at 11:25 AM	#26
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 710	Quote: Originally Posted by moofburger Its about volume bitmap errors in NTFS, Win 7 still uses NTFS. Yes, but it's not the same OS and was corrected with Vista.