Hardware problem, PC crashes during OS install

**Gandolph13** · 02-27-11 at 04:25 PM

I'm trying to fix a PC for a friend (another free job, ^%$#) and while trying to install the OS the system simply powers down. I purchased a PSU tester, and it pointed to a problem with the PSU. I have now replaced the horrid generic PSU with a good Antec modular unit, but the problem persists. This is so annoying when I assured my friend a new PSU would rectify the problem.

I have removed individual sticks of RAM, and changed slots, no difference (can't run memtest without power or OS), basically checked all hardware, with the exception of the graphics card, which I'm going to swap out today. New PSU, replaced cables, though I can't see it as a cable problem.

I'm leaning towards it being a problem with the motherboard. I know any capacitor going open or short circuit with heat will cause this problem, but it happens so very quick before the system even has a chance to heat and cause this type of error. I will try later today and have a can of freeze spray handy to spray individual components and see if it's an open circuit resistor or capacitor, but the problem with doing that is I wouldn't want to contaminate a hard drive. Another problem is the system will boot after shutting down, it just won't run long enough to install an OS.

I know it's not a problem with a drive, as I have tried several, and this is not a drive related problem (usually).

The motherboard is a GA-M525_S3P Gigabyte, and it has an AM2 processor (quad core), just not sure what model or speed at this time.
The RAM is A-DATA (unknown brand to me) and it has 2 X 2GB sticks of DDR2-800

I built this system (instructed my friend) for a friend (class mate), utilising the case he already had while attending college doing my IT subjects. His previous system had a similar fault, and was constantly going back to the shop. Every time he took it in they would replace the power supply. I was given his old MB, RAM, processor, and graphics card, and they performed without fault for 2 years.

Perhaps it's a fault with the power switch or reset switch on the case itself, same problem, different hardware??

Any ideas?

**Starson45** · 02-27-11 at 04:45 PM

from a cold boot, how long before the system powers off?

**Gandolph13** · 02-27-11 at 05:41 PM

Exactly 3:35 (minutes) from cold boot after not being plugged into power for 4 days, which totally rules out overheating.
This with the RAM swapped for good RAM out of one of my boxes.

My son always tells me it's handy keeping all this old computer gear around, I'm starting to agree!

Update:

It seems the system ALWAYS crashes during the XP install stage, always at the same point just after the splash screen while installing windows files.
I've replaced the RAM, graphics card, hard drive, PSU, thermal compound, and tried 3 different XP install disks, which have all worked on numerous other machines (SP1 OEM which came with the machine, SP 2 modified version, and SP3 clean install untouched). The system still won't get beyond that point, and I'm running out of options.
This machine ran fine for 2 years as it was when I said I'd look at it, so I know it's neither a hardware or BIOS conflict.

Any ideas would be much appreciated.

If it were the motherboard as I first suspected, it would crash after warming up to a certain point, but we ran another HDD from one of my sons machines with server2003 on it, and the system ran fine and was stable for several hours, thus eliminating motherboard components overheating and going open or short circuit.

**Noledox** · 02-27-11 at 11:28 PM

Are you using the same CD/DVD drive for all the different install discs? I'd be inclined to suggest a USB bootable device (with one of the install discs adapted to it) for comparison.

**SSRCharlieB** · 02-27-11 at 11:36 PM

Leo, when is it crashing? Does it crash at exactly the same point in the installation each time? I have had CD-Rom's cause exactly the problem you are describing. The lens tracking mechanism would stick at the same spot each time and the installation would crash. Could that be the case here or have you already checked the optical drives?

Just a thought.

Charlie

**PunKeD_GuRu** · 02-28-11 at 01:15 AM

I'm leaning towards either disk drive like stated above...

ive had this before with 2 pc's thou...
First: PSU went, (had a tester, the PSU had definitly gone)... still had problems, the mainboard had gone aswel.
Second: My OS crashed alot... over n over again, after trying to install XP or Vista over and over for a weekend, found out all i needed to do with as chkdsk -f on the XP disk first repair option...

Another thought though:
Have you tried...
First: Get into the Bios, and leave the PC turned on for 4 minutes, just sitting in bios...
Second: Can you boot/install a Linux install...
I've before tried clean installing a vista laptop with XP and it blue screened on the install... over n over
booted with Ubuntu, deleted the partitions, and then tried an XP disk (clean install again) and it worked.

Let us know!
We are all prob intrigued with whats wrong! =)

Last point!
Doing things for free/favours!
Pretty much every time, from general clean up's, replacement screens, anything... when ever i do things for free/favours it always bites me in the arse and ends up costing me more and something goes terribly wrong!

**Starson45** · 02-28-11 at 01:49 AM

I'd go with punked and try livebooting a linux os. I've also had a couple of pcs in the past, 1 wouldnt install vista at all, the other refused xp.... but both were happy to install the opposing os.......

**macbooklemon** · 02-28-11 at 03:24 AM

Try grabbing the microsoft bootable memtest utility and try that.
I also assume that you have tested the destination hard drive? ANy good bootable utility should be able to report S.M.A.R.T status.
May I suggest placing the destination hard drive into a working PC and see if that system boots? You may find that the presence of the drive prevents booting (I have had this happen before. Very annoying!)

**PunKeD_GuRu** · 02-28-11 at 04:18 AM

Like what Lemon said

If you have a spare pc, rather than changing parts on the broken pc try putting them into another pc one by one to see which fails that way.

Itching to know whats happening =P

**tongks** · 02-28-11 at 07:44 AM

1. Is your mobo socket AM2 or AM2+ or AM3? If I am not mistaken, AM2 may not support quad core, please check your mobo manual for CPU support list.

2. As suggested, booting with linux OS live CD is one step I would try.

3. If all fails, it's time to pull out your $400 multimeter (I knew you have one) to do hot measure and cold measure, trace all PSU voltages at all final points nearest possible to all loads (hot), check all loads for overload (hot VDC and cold ohms)(I assume you know which load take how many amp at what voltage), if you understand what i am trying to say, provided you trust your skill and know what you are doing. This test is to eliminate component at fault one-by-one and loose contact point, I also assume that you know all the components power pins-out.

**OldHippieRick** · 02-28-11 at 09:58 AM

This sure sounds like an OS disk driver/Optical disc related problem to me.

The MB is actually an GA-M52S-S3P and there's revisions 1&2.

It seems to have SATA drives and I know SATA drivers were not included in XP's SP1 or SP2.

Are you using a SATA optical drive?

Like others have said, load some kinda Linux OS and go from there.

Edit.....Looks like SP3 didn't include the SATA drivers also. I dunno if you can get around this by installing in IDE mode and then adding the drivers. But you can F6 the drivers from a floppy during the install or slipstream them into an install disk.

Maybe this isn't your problem but Im wondering how your "friend" installed XP?

**macbooklemon** · 02-28-11 at 12:33 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick

This sure sounds like an OS disk driver/Optical disc related problem to me.

The MB is actually an GA-M52S-S3P and there's revisions 1&2.

It seems to have SATA drives and I know SATA drivers were not included in XP's SP1 or SP2.

Are you using a SATA optical drive?

Like others have said, load some kinda Linux OS and go from there.

Edit.....Looks like SP3 didn't include the SATA drivers also. I dunno if you can get around this by installing in IDE mode and then adding the drivers. But you can F6 the drivers from a floppy during the install or slipstream them into an install disk.

Maybe this isn't your problem but Im wondering how your "friend" installed XP?

Actually, this rings a bell.
If you are installing XP with a SATA disk drive the system will only get so far. It will bluescreen at the first reboot as it cant access the disk drive (Due to lack of CD-ROM SATA drivers).
Try using an IDE disk drive, if you arn't already.

**Gandolph13** · 02-28-11 at 03:25 PM

The XP SP3 disk I have has SATA drivers included, and the optical drive is IDE.

It seems I have resolved the problem, but no one will believe my diagnosis, but it works.

I again removed the heatsink and CPU. I decided since the heatsink had a small score mark on the face that I would get the sheet of glass and wet and dry paper (carborundum paper) and slightly polish the face to ensure better contact area. After working the heatsink in a figure 8, I noticed warp in the surface, giving it a rather curved surface curving in the direction of the mounting clips.

My assumption is that once the system heats up, the heatsink bows enough to lift the CPU slightly from it's socket. I know this wasn't the issue when it shut down after cold boot, but the CPU may have already been slightly pulled from the socket, and was crashing at the same install point because some instruction set could not be carried out.

I ground the heatsink as flat as I could get it (without spending a life time, I'm not getting paid for this), got as flat a polished surface as my patience would allow, reapplied thermal compound and replaced all original hardware. The system booted straight up, and ran the OS install without a hitch, and then sat running from 4PM till 4AM when I went to bed, without any signs of a problem.

I'm putting the problem down to a crappy original CPU cooler, which I will recommend it's replacement, but it works fine for the moment, and should last for a while.

Absolutely correct about SATA drivers folks, but the system has a SATA drive and an IDE. I have disks with SATA drivers slipstreamed to get around this issue, but eventually opted to install the OS on the IDE drive anyway. I had previously tried the IDE drive with no success.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Thread closed!

02-27-11 at 05:41 PM	#3
Gandolph13 Legendary Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia (GMT+10) Posts: 12,611	Exactly 3:35 (minutes) from cold boot after not being plugged into power for 4 days, which totally rules out overheating. This with the RAM swapped for good RAM out of one of my boxes. My son always tells me it's handy keeping all this old computer gear around, I'm starting to agree! Update: It seems the system ALWAYS crashes during the XP install stage, always at the same point just after the splash screen while installing windows files. I've replaced the RAM, graphics card, hard drive, PSU, thermal compound, and tried 3 different XP install disks, which have all worked on numerous other machines (SP1 OEM which came with the machine, SP 2 modified version, and SP3 clean install untouched). The system still won't get beyond that point, and I'm running out of options. This machine ran fine for 2 years as it was when I said I'd look at it, so I know it's neither a hardware or BIOS conflict. Any ideas would be much appreciated. If it were the motherboard as I first suspected, it would crash after warming up to a certain point, but we ran another HDD from one of my sons machines with server2003 on it, and the system ran fine and was stable for several hours, thus eliminating motherboard components overheating and going open or short circuit. Last edited by Gandolph13; 02-27-11 at 10:21 PM.

02-28-11 at 09:58 AM	#11
OldHippieRick Expert Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 717	This sure sounds like an OS disk driver/Optical disc related problem to me. The MB is actually an GA-M52S-S3P and there's revisions 1&2. It seems to have SATA drives and I know SATA drivers were not included in XP's SP1 or SP2. Are you using a SATA optical drive? Like others have said, load some kinda Linux OS and go from there. Edit.....Looks like SP3 didn't include the SATA drivers also. I dunno if you can get around this by installing in IDE mode and then adding the drivers. But you can F6 the drivers from a floppy during the install or slipstream them into an install disk. Maybe this isn't your problem but Im wondering how your "friend" installed XP? Last edited by OldHippieRick; 02-28-11 at 11:14 AM.

02-27-11 at 04:45 PM	#2
Starson45 Newcomer Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 38	from a cold boot, how long before the system powers off?

02-27-11 at 11:28 PM	#4
Noledox Bad command or file name Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Terra Incognita Posts: 2,709	Are you using the same CD/DVD drive for all the different install discs? I'd be inclined to suggest a USB bootable device (with one of the install discs adapted to it) for comparison.

02-27-11 at 11:36 PM	#5
SSRCharlieB Geezer Power Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North Carolina, Small town, USA Posts: 2,504	Leo, when is it crashing? Does it crash at exactly the same point in the installation each time? I have had CD-Rom's cause exactly the problem you are describing. The lens tracking mechanism would stick at the same spot each time and the installation would crash. Could that be the case here or have you already checked the optical drives? Just a thought. Charlie

02-28-11 at 01:15 AM	#6
PunKeD_GuRu Bored Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: England! =) Posts: 1,108	I'm leaning towards either disk drive like stated above... ive had this before with 2 pc's thou... First: PSU went, (had a tester, the PSU had definitly gone)... still had problems, the mainboard had gone aswel. Second: My OS crashed alot... over n over again, after trying to install XP or Vista over and over for a weekend, found out all i needed to do with as chkdsk -f on the XP disk first repair option... Another thought though: Have you tried... First: Get into the Bios, and leave the PC turned on for 4 minutes, just sitting in bios... Second: Can you boot/install a Linux install... I've before tried clean installing a vista laptop with XP and it blue screened on the install... over n over booted with Ubuntu, deleted the partitions, and then tried an XP disk (clean install again) and it worked. Let us know! We are all prob intrigued with whats wrong! =) Last point! Doing things for free/favours! Pretty much every time, from general clean up's, replacement screens, anything... when ever i do things for free/favours it always bites me in the arse and ends up costing me more and something goes terribly wrong!

02-28-11 at 01:49 AM	#7
Starson45 Newcomer Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 38	I'd go with punked and try livebooting a linux os. I've also had a couple of pcs in the past, 1 wouldnt install vista at all, the other refused xp.... but both were happy to install the opposing os.......

02-28-11 at 03:24 AM	#8
macbooklemon I have returned! Join Date: May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,037	Try grabbing the microsoft bootable memtest utility and try that. I also assume that you have tested the destination hard drive? ANy good bootable utility should be able to report S.M.A.R.T status. May I suggest placing the destination hard drive into a working PC and see if that system boots? You may find that the presence of the drive prevents booting (I have had this happen before. Very annoying!)

02-28-11 at 04:18 AM	#9
PunKeD_GuRu Bored Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: England! =) Posts: 1,108	Like what Lemon said If you have a spare pc, rather than changing parts on the broken pc try putting them into another pc one by one to see which fails that way. Itching to know whats happening =P

02-28-11 at 07:44 AM	#10
tongks Novice Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 140	1. Is your mobo socket AM2 or AM2+ or AM3? If I am not mistaken, AM2 may not support quad core, please check your mobo manual for CPU support list. 2. As suggested, booting with linux OS live CD is one step I would try. 3. If all fails, it's time to pull out your $400 multimeter (I knew you have one) to do hot measure and cold measure, trace all PSU voltages at all final points nearest possible to all loads (hot), check all loads for overload (hot VDC and cold ohms)(I assume you know which load take how many amp at what voltage), if you understand what i am trying to say, provided you trust your skill and know what you are doing. This test is to eliminate component at fault one-by-one and loose contact point, I also assume that you know all the components power pins-out.

02-28-11 at 12:33 PM	#12
macbooklemon I have returned! Join Date: May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,037	Quote: Originally Posted by OldHippieRick This sure sounds like an OS disk driver/Optical disc related problem to me. The MB is actually an GA-M52S-S3P and there's revisions 1&2. It seems to have SATA drives and I know SATA drivers were not included in XP's SP1 or SP2. Are you using a SATA optical drive? Like others have said, load some kinda Linux OS and go from there. Edit.....Looks like SP3 didn't include the SATA drivers also. I dunno if you can get around this by installing in IDE mode and then adding the drivers. But you can F6 the drivers from a floppy during the install or slipstream them into an install disk. Maybe this isn't your problem but Im wondering how your "friend" installed XP? Actually, this rings a bell. If you are installing XP with a SATA disk drive the system will only get so far. It will bluescreen at the first reboot as it cant access the disk drive (Due to lack of CD-ROM SATA drivers). Try using an IDE disk drive, if you arn't already.

02-28-11 at 03:25 PM	#13
Gandolph13 Legendary Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia (GMT+10) Posts: 12,611	The XP SP3 disk I have has SATA drivers included, and the optical drive is IDE. It seems I have resolved the problem, but no one will believe my diagnosis, but it works. I again removed the heatsink and CPU. I decided since the heatsink had a small score mark on the face that I would get the sheet of glass and wet and dry paper (carborundum paper) and slightly polish the face to ensure better contact area. After working the heatsink in a figure 8, I noticed warp in the surface, giving it a rather curved surface curving in the direction of the mounting clips. My assumption is that once the system heats up, the heatsink bows enough to lift the CPU slightly from it's socket. I know this wasn't the issue when it shut down after cold boot, but the CPU may have already been slightly pulled from the socket, and was crashing at the same install point because some instruction set could not be carried out. I ground the heatsink as flat as I could get it (without spending a life time, I'm not getting paid for this), got as flat a polished surface as my patience would allow, reapplied thermal compound and replaced all original hardware. The system booted straight up, and ran the OS install without a hitch, and then sat running from 4PM till 4AM when I went to bed, without any signs of a problem. I'm putting the problem down to a crappy original CPU cooler, which I will recommend it's replacement, but it works fine for the moment, and should last for a while. Absolutely correct about SATA drivers folks, but the system has a SATA drive and an IDE. I have disks with SATA drivers slipstreamed to get around this issue, but eventually opted to install the OS on the IDE drive anyway. I had previously tried the IDE drive with no success. Thanks for all the suggestions! Thread closed!